User talk:Aleta Curry/Archive 5

 Where Aleta lives it is approximately: 18:47

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Aleta stops into the forums somewhere between 0630 and 0900, and works on the wiki between about 1200 and 1500, time and weather permitting.

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Aleta Curry

Current talk page

Archive 1, Archive 2, Archive 3, Archive 4, Archive 5, Archive 6

Names

Thanks to the fragmented discussion, it came up here once again: http://mail.citizendium.org/pipermail/cz-biology/2007-October/date.html Kim van der Linde 17:18, 25 October 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the link. Aw, Kim, it's just too hard....Aleta Curry 19:47, 25 October 2007 (CDT)

Tallong

Are you from Tallong? The photos make me want to visit. --Joe Quick 22:42, 28 October 2007 (CDT)

I am! Come over any time! It ain't fancy, but we can make you welcome!Aleta Curry 22:52, 28 October 2007 (CDT)

Well, it's a bit of a walk from Chicago, but I have had a yearning to visit Australia for some years now. Let me think of a way to tie it into Latin American studies so I can get somebody else to cover my expenses. Maybe indigenous rights? Australia is really interesting from that perspective. --Joe Quick 23:03, 28 October 2007 (CDT)

Photos

If you compile a list of all photos you've uploaded to CZ I will fix them ;). --Robert W King 08:10, 31 October 2007 (CDT)

This should work. Chris Day (talk) 08:48, 31 October 2007 (CDT)

Robert, Bless you my son. Chris, you rock! How did you do that?! I've been wondering how to keep track of photos I've uploaded and was about to bug Stephen.

By the by, Robert, since Joe is going to make his way out here eventually, you could fly or swim over, too, and take lots of pictures of bugs and wildlife and things!

Aleta Curry 14:57, 31 October 2007 (CDT)

Buy me a ticket and I'm there. ;D --Robert W King 16:24, 31 October 2007 (CDT)

From my first bestseller or first million--it's a promise!  :) Aleta Curry 16:27, 31 October 2007 (CDT)

Ooh! We could all celebrate our Nth approved article in Tallong! --Joe Quick 00:53, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Fine by me. Other draws: my husband is really, really, nice and I'm a good cook. Just make sure you like dogs, cats, horses and wildlife! (And don't freak out with SNAKES and BUGS!) Aleta Curry

Mini foxies

© Photo: Mini Foxie Club of Australia
Add image caption here.

This is all set to go. Stephen Ewen 00:41, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Also, you need to get emails for Image:Judell_Lucky_-_tri-colour_Miniature_Fox_Terrier_Bitch.jpg and Image:Jackaroo_Mini_Foxie.jpg, please. Stephen Ewen 01:30, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Isn't Lucky's photo covered in that original permission e-mail? I would think so, since that was first photo I uploaded. But not to worry; I'll take care of all in any case. Aleta Curry 16:34, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

It's not covered. See the email. Stephen Ewen 21:24, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Move

Pedigree_papers drastically needed the adjective. Stephen Ewen 21:06, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

No problemo, except of course now the link I left Jeff doesn't work. Did you move the subpages, too, Speedy Gonzalez? Aleta Curry 21:10, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Oh my, what a mess :-) What were yooou thinking :D --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:15, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

What? Where? WhadidIdo now??? Aleta Curry 21:19, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

I moved the subpages. Just leave a message at Jeff's talk. Stephen Ewen 21:23, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Cool. Not that serious--I'm sure he's got it! Aleta Curry 21:26, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Now I'm totally mixed up. There is a papers(disambig) and a paper(disambig)?!Jeffrey Scott Bernstein 21:32, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Hehe, I liked the Guantanimo Bay part :D ... whatamess --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:45, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Yes, there should be two disambig pages for paper and papers. --Robert W King 21:46, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Okay, that's part's done--and it's not a mess, you meanie! P Aleta Curry 21:49, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Wait, I'm befuddled. Some of the "paper(disambig)" info can also fit on the "papers (disambig)". Should I move it all so the information is available on both disambig. pages?Maybe someone else should evaluate it all; I'm dizzy.Jeffrey Scott Bernstein 21:52, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

LOL at Jeff. Yes, I think both disambigs should be combined. Stephen Ewen 21:59, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Okay, one at a time:

We have

paper, paper (disambiguation) (for singular), papers (disambig for the plural), and pedigree papers. That should do it. Aleta Curry 21:55, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Frustration

Alack and alas -- my work has consumed me today as I have a conference presentation next week. I may did start an article called Frustration. Grrrrr!! Thanks much for looking for me though Aleta - I really missed the party. The Odd Couple indeed!-- who said an encyclopedia couldn't be camp!?!! I will be back... --Ian Johnson 18:07, 7 November 2007 (CST)

Well, we certainly missed you, but all the vodka, not to mention Hayford's cocktails, took the edge off! See ya next month! Aleta Curry 21:07, 7 November 2007 (CST)

new friend

I found you a friend! User:David_Joseph_Butler See where he's from? Sheesh, I think I'm channeling my mother... --Joe Quick 16:50, 9 November 2007 (CST)

Hey, cool! I'll drop him a note. 'Course, NSW is pretty large! But who knows--we might be neighbours! Aleta Curry 20:08, 11 November 2007 (CST)

Dull thorns.

--Robert W King 21:45, 12 November 2007 (CST)

That took me a minute--LOL. What soured you on them?

Listen, when you come out here, come in Spring (this time of year) and you can see a wild rose in bloom. Very pretty. Not nearly as showy as the others, but with a sweet, understated beauty. But what do I know? I was one of those odd little girls who pulled up the flowers of weeds and proudly presented them to my mother....Aleta Curry 21:51, 12 November 2007 (CST)

Plantstinctionist!!!!!! --Robert W King 21:53, 12 November 2007 (CST)

Stop! I just made one of those loud, snorty laughs and dribbled coffee onto my keyboard! Aleta Curry 21:57, 12 November 2007 (CST)

Approvals

I will email the Biology editors to ask for some action from them. Approvals should be a priority, --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 06:25, 13 November 2007 (CST)

Allrighty, then. Aleta Curry 13:40, 13 November 2007 (CST)

Film, TV, etc.

So, Aleta, we've been agreeing with each other for several months now about the need for a film workgroup. What can we do about it? Is there any evidence that the new workgroup requests page is leading to action? (Oh, and regarding dancers and opera singers in film: touché!) --Eric Winesett 22:07, 14 November 2007 (CST)

Yes, true--it *is* getting to be a bit like "You're right, Eric". "Thank you, you're right, too, Aleta." "Thank you, and you're right as well"....

What can we do about it? Well, we can do what Kim Van der Linde did with the Tree of Life thing, which is to simply start adding the category as if there is one already. I think we might put it to Larry for at least tacit permission, first, though.

Another point: I guess we could use "needs workgroup", too? I use this for fashion, e.g. Is it disingenuous to use it here? Aleta Curry 14:24, 15 November 2007 (CST)

I think in this case "needs workgroup" would just be replaced with Media and/or Visual Arts by someone not privy to our little plan. (I've actually considered applying for editorship in visual arts just so I could deal with this issue more officially. As far as I know, there are currently no active editors in Visual Arts.) -Eric Winesett 22:16, 15 November 2007 (CST)

Is the new requests page leading to action? I think it *will*, eventually, but is being deferred because of--for lack of a better term--more pressing matters. I know one could easily argue that there is little more pressing than the organisation of articles, and I mentioned this when the Core Articles initiative was started, and Larry's response was that many things might change anyway once the workgroups were sorted out. I and others have also raised the matter of workgroups at other times, and it is my feeling that everyone, including Larry, thinks this is important, but there are only so many hours and all that.

Dancers and opera singers in film-- :) Well, it's not something that would be the first thing which came to mind, is it?

Aleta Curry 14:04, 15 November 2007 (CST)

p.s. - do you *really* sign on, check your watchlist, make your edits, pick a subject and write an intelligent stub in less than 10 minutes??? It's a bird...it's a plane...it's SuperEric!! Aleta Curry 14:12, 15 November 2007 (CST)

Well, no. I'm actually a slow writer because I just can't hit that save button until I'm happy with every word—even for a stub. But the point was that I only have time to write stubs, even if someone else could write a developed article just as fast. (Once I created an article with subpages and spent a while writing a stub on its main page. When I saved for the first time, I got an edit conflict. Another Citizen had written a nanostub and commented "Don't forget to create the main article!") -Eric Winesett 22:16, 15 November 2007 (CST)

Yeah, I'm like that, too. But having lost a few masterpieces, I'm starting to reconsider. Actually, that's a lie--I really *can't* let people see my first edits--so I usually start in Word and copy over! Aleta Curry 22:36, 15 November 2007 (CST)

So where do you stand on the specifics? Film by itself, film and TV together, or some other variation? -Eric Winesett 22:16, 15 November 2007 (CST)

I don't think I can answer that until I know what the exact parameters of the workgroups are going to be. I mean, what SIZE division are we talking about? There's certainly enough for a separate Film Workgroup and a separate Television Workgroup. But I'd have no philosophical problem with a flim and television workgroup, either. But if something like Yoga gets its own workgroup (which I don't think it merits under our present system), and space exploration gets its own workgroup, film and television both should.Aleta Curry 22:36, 15 November 2007 (CST)

Editor welcome

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Welcome, new editor! We're very glad you've joined us. Here are pointers for a quick start. Also, when you get a chance, please read The Editor Role. You can look at Getting Started and our help system for other introductory pages. It is also important, for project-wide matters, to join the Citizendium-L (broadcast) mailing list. Announcements are also available via Twitter. You can test out editing in the sandbox if you'd like. If you need help to get going, the forum is one option. That's also where we discuss policy and proposals. You can ask any administrator for help, too. Just put a note on their "talk" page. Again, welcome and thank you! We appreciate your willingness to share your expertise, and we hope to see your edits on Recent changes soon. --Larry Sanger 09:20, 19 November 2007 (CST)

'nother friend for ya

User:Michael_Handley - his bio is all about German Shepherd Dogs. --Joe Quick

Dance

I changed the introduction on the article about dance. I believe that i made an improvement. If you believe that i have failed to mention a integral part of your previous definition, you should contact me, and i wil do my best to integrate two different versions into a third. Micha van den Berg 20:58, 22 November 2007 (CST)

Thanks--didn't realise you were online. I've already made a change. Aleta Curry 21:09, 22 November 2007 (CST)

I think we have to be carefull, dance needs to be able to define both modern art and dance, tribal dances and animals matings dances. I changes the definition again, does it look better? I think we need to create two definitions of dance. 1) very abstract and trancendial. 2) The other more ritualised forms of movement that can have different names and meanings in different societies. Also try and respond on my talk page so i will get a message. Micha van den Berg 21:33, 22 November 2007 (CST)

MiniFoxies

Congratulations! Looks like you are the first to obtain what I'd call "blanket permission" from an entity to use their photos. This means the permission gets a separate special page and its own template to tag photos, {{Bypermission-noreuse-minifoxieclub}}. This makes it easier in the future when using photos from them - the template already links to the permission. Stephen Ewen 23:41, 22 November 2007 (CST)

Steve, thanks for all your effort. I've just made a deletion: those letters contained my personal e-mail address--the one used by family and friends--which I naturally don't want floating about the web. Thanks again. Aleta Curry 16:09, 25 November 2007 (CST)

Okay, I've locked the page now. Stephen Ewen 17:53, 25 November 2007 (CST)

Opening sentence of the vitamin C page

Hi, thanks for the help! It is important to be clear in the opening sentence of an article, indeed... Would you agree with the sentence I propose? Thanks in advance. Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 15:38, 25 November 2007 (CST)

Yes, replied at the talk page--that's excellent! No wonder you're a "terminologist"! Aleta Curry 16:02, 25 November 2007 (CST)

Garden defs

Any reason why you are not using the def templates on all the entries in the Garden/Catalogs or is that the long term plan? This brings up an interesting question about whether this should be on the related Articles page and, if so, what should a catalog on this topic look like? I don't have answers, just some random thoughts. Chris Day (talk) 03:22, 26 November 2007 (CST)

"No", "yes", and then again, "no". I'm having a bit of trouble with this, for reasons you've already realised. For one thing, sometimes my definitions also had a note, like for Greenhouse, "see also Shadehouse, below" or some such. Well, obviously, that works in a list, but not in a template definition. When I tried to add a note like "see item XYZ below" or "XYZ- aka PQR-sometimes called ABC" it messed up the template, and I didn't see a way to fix it. Had the same problem in Animalier; when I tried to do the catalogue and the templates and say, for example, that George Earl was the father of Maud Earl, below.

The other problem is of course as you say: what the heck is the difference between "related articles" and "catalogs". The template for related articles says something like "articles about subject ABC". Well, that's not exactly true as I see it. For instance, at Tallong I would think that Southern Highlands, NSW and the Apple Industry and the Royal Easter Show were all related, but obviously, none of those things is about Tallong itself per se.

Finally, back to catalogs: when do we put the catalog at the page, as I began doing at Garden/catalogs, and when do we place a list of catalogs, as I did at banana/catalog?

I don't have any answers, either!

Aleta Curry 14:35, 26 November 2007 (CST)

Esposende

Thanks, but I'm not in London & I never get up until the afternoon, so I might as well be in America - Ro Thorpe 09:10, 5 December 2007 (CST)

How cool. Oh, now I remember--Hayford said something about your eating some yummy-sounding Portuguese dish a while back--I get it now! Aleta Curry 19:32, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Ah, right. I wonder what dish that was - Ro Thorpe 17:25, 6 December 2007 (CST)

Dance

Please contact me after you made changes to an article, I made a contribution in. This is not wikipedia. I wrote a lot of text in this article about dance, and you made a several big changes; without notifying me. Micha van den Berg 10:43, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Micha, I think you need to consider carefully whether you are developing a proprietary attitude towards this article. I do not believe that I am required to "notify" anybody before I edit anything. As it happens, I discussed the problems I had with your text at the talk page. You made several "big changes" as well, remember. Please contact a constable if you feel you need to. Aleta Curry 13:42, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Since you asked for independent comments: -))) I had a look at the article changes and the Talk page. My personal feeling was that Micha's last edits were good, and show some deep understanding of the topic; this is not to say that there was a problem with your contributions, Aleta, but Micha is taking a different approach. Insofar as the "racial" or "ethnic" aspects are concerned, re the removed discussion on Talk, this is something which I am fairly expert on. My opinion is that it is legitimate to discuss cultural differences as real things, but of course, the actual wording has to be careful. Perhaps Micha can write some ideas down and Aleta [who is a native English speaker] can help with refining the language and presentation. Both of you should try collaboration rather than dispute! --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 14:35, 5 December 2007 (CST)

I agree. I never meant to suggest that cultural differences could not be discussed, of course they should. It is, as you say Martin, the manner in which they are discussed. Aleta Curry 14:41, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Good. Bear in mind that some of these sensitive issues are more obvious to native speakers, and also that you and I are older than Micha [ahem, only a little] and have more experience of being careful with delicate topics...--Martin Baldwin-Edwards 15:30, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Another good point, as usual. I'll do as you say when I can bear to go back to this. I should have chosen my words more carefully in the beginning, anyway. Aleta Curry 15:40, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Yes, you called me a bigot and referred to my work as new age; and that made me very angry. My vault is that i spoke towards you in a authoritarian manner. If you had notified me I would have explained to you, why I used the two words spiritual/meditative and the sentence our westernised definition. Please contact me about this matter. I understand that there are some cultural gaps between American and Dutch society, for example; we still use the word negro (neger) to describe African people; but we never had a history of extensive slavery; so the word still exists in the Dutch language.

You don’t have to respond at my talk page when you make changes. But have to… and it would be courteous to… are two different things and I will leave you free in your choices. Besides that you did add a few good changes and we will need to iron that out; but! We will need to go into several discussion on the topic of dance before I am satisfied that your changes are adequate. I will look through the changes you made; to make sure that I did not overlook anything useful you wrote and think about my own definitions. Micha van den Berg 16:11, 5 December 2007 (CST)

No, Micha, I did not call you a bigot. In my opinion, the sectioning of the article as you had structured it would lead us down a path with racist overtones.

Here's what I mean: when I was a child, it was perfectly acceptable to refer to, say, Africans as belonging to different tribes. However, in a similar context, Welshmen and Irishmen and Britons and Danes and Frenchmen would not be described as belong to different "tribes" of white people. That's not done anymore; I expect educated, cultured people to use the same type of language in categorising persons. It's not a questions of trying to pretend there are not differences, it's a question of, "are the differences being described with the same level of respect?" To bring it back to dance, when I was a girl, ballet was described as "classical dance", English dance was called "country dancing" and African dance was "tribal dancing". Well, that's not true. Ballet is "classical dance" for some caucasians; English country dancing is one type of tribal dance and Nigerian dance is another. I was very happy to see a recent documentary on "classical Thai dance"; the filmmakers clearly made language choices that would not have been thought of decades earlier.

As to your language example, it's an interesting one, but you have to adjust your premise. It is not so much a question of one culture vs. another, indeed we cannot allow it to be. It is a question of, when writing in English in the 21st Century, are we using appropriate language. You could not, to use your example, translate literally from the Dutch neger to the English negro (unless you were quoting something, or using the word in I don't know what limited context) and get away with it. It's not just that *I* would object to it, I suspect a large number of CZers from around the globe whose first language was English would object; at least I hope they would.

Aleta Curry 19:26, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Every time you use culture and ethnicity as a ground for describing diversity in arts; dance, music or literature. You become a racialist. Someone who recognises that the concept of race is a very important factor in the way a people shape or express themselves. For example; we have a article about African American literature on this wikia. That is one of the most racial definitions on this encyclopaedia; but it makes sense because in American society, where race hatred is very common; there exist such a thing as racial separation in the minds of most Americans and this has prevented American society from forming anything that comes close to a homogenous culture.

To be honest i have no idea what you actually mean. Maybe it is my foreign upbringing; but i can't make head or tails out of your response. It seems to me that you are bringing a lot of material into this discussion that i had no contact with, and should not be discussed Right now. I never said i wanted to use the word negro in an article at citizendium, because American slavery made that word hateful. I feel that you are pushing me into a direction. I am not able to understand why the idea of a separate African-American and European-American culture in the same country is wrong or could not be discussed? Micha van den Berg 11:54, 6 December 2007 (CST)

I think i have a better idea: We will make a list of the 10 - 20 most common American, Canadian and Mexican dances and if there are no clear cultural boundaries between different types of dances we would have a single North-American culture. On the other hand; if we do discover different cultural and ethnic dance cultures in North-America then we should describe them per culture. Micha van den Berg 12:04, 6 December 2007 (CST)

Your note on Write-a-Thon

Hi Aleta, I was really busy these last few weeks, so unfortunately I was not able to participate in the December Write-a-Thon (nor have I been able to contribute anything else which is substantial). Cheerio, --Hendra I. Nurdin 05:42, 8 December 2007 (CST)

Good to hear from you, Hendra. We'll see you next time! Aleta Curry 15:20, 8 December 2007 (CST)

Not shy boy, absent minded scientist

Thanks for the note Aleta. I just forgot to sign up on the Write-a-thon board this month. David E. Volk 09:09, 10 December 2007 (CST)

That, then, would make me the absent minded professor... Thanks, A..., you narcis..., narcissi..., you, well...YOU!!! Blessings... --Michael J. Formica 09:27, 10 December 2007 (CST)

Maltese (dog)

This needs your attention, dog lady. I have 4 of the little buggers, and wrote most of this article for Wikipedia. Blessings... --Michael J. Formica 09:49, 10 December 2007 (CST)

I read the article with interest, Michael, thanks. Great start! I will make some suggestions, mostly along the lines of not confusing the factual and the anecdotal. It doesn't look like I can stay online today, but I'll be back asap. Aleta Curry 16:53, 10 December 2007 (CST)

Wags tail

Thanks for the plug, says raucous extrovert Ro Thorpe 13:08, 10 December 2007 (CST)

table

Sorry I misattributed you work on the table. Good stuff, you used it in the way I envisaged. I don't mind what people call articles now as they can be changed latter. The main issue is to have some ground rules and I think the table is the best way to represent these. Chris Day (talk) 10:22, 18 December 2007 (CST)

Sorry I missed it

I promise I will make an attempt to show up at the next Write-A-Thon Aleta. Thank you for the thought though, and Happy Holidays Eric M Gearhart

Cool! Nice to hear from you. You have the very merriest, too! Aleta Curry 22:18, 23 December 2007 (CST)

unorphaning

That'd be "adopting". --Robert W King 18:58, 26 December 2007 (CST) Maybe on the wiki, where the adoption procedures are less formal and protracted, "linking" would do :-) --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 19:09, 26 December 2007 (CST)

"Adopting"--Hahahahahahahaha!

Everybody's a comedian!

Bunch of wise-donkeys, aren't ya?

Aleta Curry 19:30, 26 December 2007 (CST)

Of course, if you find a lot of orphans we could set up an orphanage instead:-)--Martin Baldwin-Edwards 19:55, 26 December 2007 (CST)

Email

Following your instructions, I got a blank page for me to write to you. Anyway, if it's about your asking me what the inferno I was doing on the Arthur Wardle page, forget it, I did blunder there somehow - except that you could have made it clear to me what it was you were referring to - at the time it seemed you were complaining about my War on Unnecessary Capitals (which is Very Justified).

I'm more concerned, actually, that I don't have email enabled - do you know how I can fix that? - Ro Thorpe 16:55, 28 December 2007 (CST)

Yes, it was about that, I wanted to say 'sorry'. I tease a lot, that's just me, but someone informed me that it was offensive; I was surprised, but concerned. I need to remember that people cannot see facial expression and hear tone in print. By the way--I missed the whole war on unnecessary capitals thing--like the Concord--right over my head.

Yes, I do know how to fix that. At the top of the CZ screen you'll see a row of blue options, beginning with your name. Click my preferences, two places to the right of that. Then you can type in an e-mail address, then go all the way to the e-mail section at the bottom, and tick "enable e-mail from other users" or whatever it's called.

Aleta Curry 17:55, 28 December 2007 (CST)

Ah, 'my preferences', of course. Thanks, I've fixed that.

It's OK, I've got used to your tone of voice.

The capitals thing is just me, but all are welcome... Ro Thorpe 18:35, 28 December 2007 (CST)

See...

Talk:List_of_mountain_ranges. Stephen Ewen 20:48, 29 December 2007 (CST)

January 2008 Write-a-thon?

Hi Aleta, am I just completely an over-eager beaver this year or is the Write-A-Thon going to be happening today, January 2? Oh, and Happy New Year! Louise Valmoria 13:56, 1 January 2008 (CST)

'Morning, Lou! You're not overly-eager, ordinarily it would be scheduled for today, but due to expected...ah...over-indulgence, it's been moved to next Wednesday, the 9th. Non-forum frequenters wouldn't know that, so I'm about to post a note on the Main Page.

Can you be here next Wed? Pretty please?

Aleta Curry 15:07, 1 January 2008 (CST)

Morning Aleta! Thanks for that--I'll need to check the forum more often, I think. I will be here next Wed with bells on! (or maybe something less Christmassy--we're over that now). Thanks again for the update.Louise Valmoria 18:55, 1 January 2008 (CST)

And I went and fixed Write-A-Thon thinking it was this Wednesday... five minutes later User:Robert_W_King fixed that though :) Also, Happy New Year Aleta Eric M Gearhart

"Class acts" indeed.

;D --Robert W King 21:15, 1 January 2008 (CST)

No joke! We've got some really heavy hitters here, and (in addition to starting some stratospheric stuff), people have brought over some great articles from WP.

If you ask me, there are some statements in the WP/CZ instructions that seem snide--just shy of 'Wikipedia bashing'. I'd like to eliminate them all--it's been bothering me for months! Sigh--I'll just add that to the list....

Aleta Curry 21:35, 1 January 2008 (CST)

Fuzzy dog

Glad you approve: for a second I thought it must be a new breed - Ro Thorpe 08:38, 3 January 2008 (CST)

Black Beauty

Thanks for the edits...I was seeing how those subcategories worked! --Kate Fultz Hollis 09:36, 6 January 2008 (CST)

Party Hearty!

• Hi Aleta, I could not be a complete bore two parties running. Usual dull excuses apply, but I see that fun is to be had here once again. Hope you are getting some rain, and not too much, wherever you are. My cousin is in Lismore and has eight rescue helicopters using the sports field opposite her house as a makeshift heliport for the floods. Anyway, back to it. Must get into the party officially somehow... Best, --Ian Johnson 13:47, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Excellent! Fab-u-lous to see you back--although I gather you've been using the brain cells a great deal on the PR front. The weather extremes are amazing, aren't they? We've just got tons of grey and drizzle; the Shoalhaven Gorge is only a couple of Ks away, and our property takes in a bit of Tallowa Gully--plus Le Shack and the construction site are on the side of a hill,so no chance of flooding. Were you in Germany for the hols? Must've been a blast! Aleta Curry 14:57, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Christmas in Brussels and the Netherlands. Here is a link to Chrissy in BE. Was good. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGGKAqyBRDA>

Time for bed here -- past! Anderson Cooper is rabbiting on -- and when you're in Europe and he pops up, you know it's late. Two Press Releases today hence my late slumber... --Ian Johnson 21:04, 9 January 2008 (CST)

'Night then! See you soon! Aleta Curry 21:16, 9 January 2008 (CST)

thanks...

...for remembering to invite me :) Chris Day (talk) 16:53, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Not at all--delighted! Aleta Curry 17:02, 9 January 2008 (CST)

thanks

for inviting me! I hope to edit more extensively for the next write-a-thon. Hey, I have 3 hours of citizediting left before it's Thursday! Let's see what people from the West Coast have to say! Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 20:38, 9 January 2008 (CST)

De rien. Three more hours--whoa--that's ages! Wonder if we've got anyone in Hawaii?  :) Aleta Curry 20:49, 9 January 2008 (CST)

I dunno, but Hayford is in Tahiti, I think. I see he has edited my skin! Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 20:52, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Thanks but Sorry

Aleta, I'm caught in a job transition right now and hope to be back in shape by the next Geogra-thon! Supten Sarbadhikari 22:11, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Eeeewwww! Know how that goes! Good luck and see ya soon! Aleta Curry 17:22, 10 January 2008 (CST)

thanks

for the invite (and for spelling "neighbourhood" (don't know why i wrote "behaviour" before) the correct, Commonwealth way); sorry i joined a little late in the game! Simon Overduin 23:38, 9 January 2008 (CST)

- thanks for the invite, guess I was getting carried away in EdinburghGareth Leng 09:32, 10 January 2008 (CST)

Oh, you're welcome, you're welcome. I'm going to head over now and see how the final results look.... And, Simon, we shall have to hang tough against the Yankee hordes! ;) Aleta Curry 17:24, 10 January 2008 (CST)

Drink of the month

I see Brandy is listed as a drink of the month on the write-a-thon. Nobody actually edited brandy see the hisory hense why I refered to it as an empty bottle in my write-a-thon summery. Derek Harkness 19:55, 11 January 2008 (CST)

What??! Are you trying to say that we're not drinking enough? That will never do! Well, I don't know that we had a "drink-of-the-month" official policy, but de facto it seems that the DOM was one everybody got into (so to speak) so I s'pose you're right. Aleta Curry 16:15, 12 January 2008 (CST)

I completely misunderstood your use of "edit". This was not even created this month; removed tired old bottle from shelf! Aleta Curry 17:27, 12 January 2008 (CST)

CZ live

I tried, and it worked! Surprising indeed to see that the CZ live tag wasn't there, if it's supposed to appear with the metadata template (and some level of activity, am i right?).... perhaps the vit C page had no CZ live because the CZ super live or CZ so live it's out of this world categories don't exist yet? Pierre-Alain Gouanvic

Hee, hee, hee--you could be right! We don't have an adequate mechanism for dealing with the superlative! (yet) Aleta Curry 15:15, 13 January 2008 (CST)

Sorry

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't really pay attention to Write-a-Thon, but I probably will write something next time. Thanks! Yi Zhe Wu 20:41, 13 January 2008 (CST)

Cool. I'll try to remember to remind you next month. Aleta Curry 22:55, 13 January 2008 (CST)

Clusters?

In re the discussion of Roman Catholic Church: what's a cluster? Could you direct me to a CZ policy page or whatever?

Right about the Catholicism article. That was what I added the "clarification" for.

James F. Perry 18:53, 18 January 2008 (CST)

Re Catholicism: yes, I thought that's what you meant, I was agreeing.

Re 'cluster': That's the CZ word for an article plus it's subpages, the Biology cluster.

I'm suggesting that for most topics, "History of XYZ" will not merit its own cluster, but will be a subtopic under its parent group. Obviously, for some large ones, yes, they will, and what would ordinarily be subtopics would merit their own clusters.

This is not cast in stone, James, our subpages are new and we're still formulating policy. Just my ideas.

Aleta Curry 16:23, 19 January 2008 (CST)

Subpages

I think the the Diabetes mellitus type 2 needs to have treatment broken off into a separate page. Should/can I do this as a subpage? Thanks - Robert Badgett 10:24, 23 January 2008 (CST)

Y'know, I completely read this wrong first time through. I thought you were asking whether or not you could treat the article Dabetes mellitus type 2 as a subpage of Diabetes, and I was going to say that you *could*, whether or not you *should* would depend on how you wanted to structure your clusters, how much infomation was different for all the diabetes types, etc etc.

Now, on re-reading, I believe you're asking whether "treatment" as in "how one attempts to control or eliminate this condition" should be a separate subpage of the article Diabetes mellitus type 2, yes?

Well, I think that would be preferable to say, starting a new article on the treatment of diabetes this, that, and the other.

To find available subpages, you need to click the Talk tab, then look down to where it says subpages and click the "show" button over to the right.

If, as I suspect, that does not give you enough options that you like, then I would talk to Chris about customizing tabs for diseases and medical conditions.

Great idea. I would like to organize our medical subpages so they are more predicable.

A suggestion, if I may. Could you consider an introductory article to Diabetes? Or use the tutorial subpages on such things as Diabetes mellitus type 2? Just reading it, it's not all that accessible to the layperson browsing...I mean..."surfing" the encyclopaedia.

I agree that this is needed. However, I think the expert version has to be sketched out first so we understand the science before we write the basic version. This avoids our writing something in the lay version that is incorrect. I see this all the time where watered down versions of medical topics make unsupported, incorrect statements. Also, I am afraid I do not have the time for writing lay versions. - Robert Badgett 16:16, 23 January 2008 (CST)

Aleta Curry 15:43, 23 January 2008 (CST)

Mistress

*PROD*... --Robert W King 14:38, 25 January 2008 (CST)

May you take a look to Fossilization?

Aleta,

months ago, you left a note that you are wishing to help with Earth Science articles, but how could you in such a specialistic field? And, do you remember my answer? You could help by checking out whether text were understandable and well written.

Well, that time is arrived at last. Fossilization is almost set for approval. It would be great if you could take the time to read it and comment. I thrust your writing style, you see...

Thanks in advance, I know you will help! Ciao! --Nereo Preto 10:54, 26 January 2008 (CST)

Of course I will! It's about 9 o'clock a.m. Sunday now, so I'm off to church, but I'll come back just for you in a couple of hours. Looks like we'll have a fine day, so I should have power--fingers crossed! At any rate, I promise to have a good, long look just as soon as I'm able. Aleta Curry 15:58, 26 January 2008 (CST)

Great Aleta, super-thanks! Nereo Preto 13:46, 29 January 2008 (CST)

Trouble with subpage call

I have been trying to get the subpages call to work properly on:

Olympic medalists in cycling (women)

After numerous experiments, I've given up. Any suggestions as to what might be wrong? The subpages seem to work just fine on the higher level pages of the Olympic Games catalogs.

James F. Perry 21:28, 27 January 2008 (CST)

Hi there, James. I've tried a few things, and I don't see it, either. Perhaps it just doesn't like another level? (sub-sub-subpages) I'd ask Chris if that's the problem.

Hubby's complaining he needs the line, so I've gotta go; will try again in the morning if you haven't worked it out.

Ciao! Aleta Curry 03:13, 28 January 2008 (CST)

I will ask Chris about the problem. I am beginning to suspect it is either a line length problem (that could be handled by re-naming the next-to-last file and possibly the last file in the line as well) or maybe it is the number of sub-levels. Hope it's not the latter. James F. Perry 10:20, 28 January 2008 (CST)

See my note on the page--it's the number of sub-levels. That's by design... --Larry Sanger 10:33, 28 January 2008 (CST)

Okay, then. James, Larry's note is on the "catalogs" talk page. Aleta Curry 15:01, 28 January 2008 (CST)

You act like I work here or something..

You should be all set up and ready to go. :) So can I use my Geograthon entry for the Write-a-Thon since it didn't get much attention this month? --Todd Coles 21:41, 29 January 2008 (CST)

Ignore that comment, I was thinking it was tomorrow and I'm all booked up. I think I'll go to bed now. --Todd Coles 22:13, 29 January 2008 (CST)

Yeah, well, we'll have to create a new category for you if you can't make it next week! Thanks! I didn't even remember about the Geograthon--saw the forum post too late! Gotta run--we're having a storm--deadly for solar power and dial-up! Ciao! Aleta Curry 22:15, 29 January 2008 (CST)

You should ask Jitse to modify the subpage bot to make write-a-thon announcements. --Robert W King 15:24, 6 February 2008 (CST)

Olympic Games catalogs

I just undid your edit to the Olympic Games catalog subpage. The listed sports are not supposed to link to mainspace articles on the sports in question. Instead, they should link to listings of Olympic Games medal winners (that is, catalogs). The sub-listings under cycling show an example. I didn't subdivide the individual sports because they may have to be handled idiosyncratically. Some sports medal winners lists would list all winners, male and female, on one list. Others would have to be divided into male and female lists, while others (such as track and field) might have to be sub-divided further for reasons of length.

I'm quite sure my revert is correct here. Articles in mainspace about the individual sports are shown in the related articles listing. Also, I used the official Olympic names of the sports as shown in the program for the Beijing Olympics. The article name on CZ might be different of course (see football for example).

I hope I am being clear above. It is the difference between an article about the sport and a list of medal winners in the sport (catalog).

James F. Perry 18:59, 31 January 2008 (CST)

Good enough; I must've misread. There will of course have to be a linked catalogue of Olympic sports, sounds like this isn't it.

Re naming: aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

Aleta Curry 15:01, 1 February 2008 (CST)

Welcome

Hi, how are you? You seem to have created a lot of articles to date. Meg Ireland 18:39, 6 February 2008 (CST)

Yes, I write...that's what I do. All's well here in the Southern Highlands, just getting a bit weary of grim, muddy weather! Aleta Curry 18:51, 6 February 2008 (CST)

Ah, God's Country. Well it's been raining up here in Sydney. Guess I'll be catching you around on Citizendium often. Meg Ireland 18:56, 6 February 2008 (CST)

Thanks for the invite

to the February write-a-thon. And happy Chinese new year! --Christian Liem 20:38, 6 February 2008 (CST)

Me too, I've been snowed under figuratively and literally. Plus, I might need to get a new computer, too many crashes. Chris Day (talk) 22:48, 6 February 2008 (CST)

You're both welcome! And Chris, I'm a member of the might-need-to-get-a-new-computer club. Utterly depressing, I've no idea what to do. Aleta Curry 16:25, 7 February 2008 (CST)

Dare I say it -- Get an Apple! Sorry I missed the W-a-Thon -- got stuck in UK for work purposes with limited net access. (But at least my little old Apple laptop didn't crash. HeHe.) Thanks also for the invite Aleta, and raincheck is firmly attached for next month... --Ian Johnson 10:28, 10 February 2008 (CST)

Oh, Ian! You can't expect me to learn a new operating system! Especially one that's not compatible with...anything else?!

Anyway, you'd just better be at the next write-a-thon or I will drag you in by the--I mean--I will weep copious tears! Aleta Curry 15:39, 10 February 2008 (CST)

CZ International - thanks for getting us moving!

Hi Aleta! Actually, I think we should be thanking you for your organisational efforts, and for getting us 'on the same page'--literally, at least. So, thanks!Louise Valmoria 18:22, 15 February 2008 (CST)

You're all very welcome! I only write at a professional level in English, so I think I've taken things about as far as I can. Hope it works! Aleta Curry 18:35, 15 February 2008 (CST)

Yes, thank you so much! I have provided explanations of my position(s...) in both sections (public, private). I saw that you are taking care of the structure of the debate. If you feel that by being so detailed, I tend to obscure the decisional process, let me know. I may issue a complementary (and supportive) proposal, Translation Eduzendium, separately. Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 00:04, 17 February 2008 (CST)

I think your comments are fine and helpful, the only thing I would suggest is speaking specifically to why you think the Citoyendium should be public rather than private. (Maybe you have since I first read your comments, I dunno.)

Also, the proposal needs a driver within a week or it dies. Is this something you would like to take on?

I'd be completely comfortable with a separate proposal on translations, though I'm a little afraid it would further diffuse the talent. But, as you wish.

Aleta Curry 00:10, 17 February 2008 (CST)

Hebrew handwriting

I took a couple of Hebrew courses at an Ulpan school which were sort of immersion based is the best way I can describe it. It was so different from any other language I had learned, and I loved it. That's how I learned the written alphabet--almost all forgotten now, I would think. Anyway, a work colleague told me that I wrote half in printing, half in handwriting. So not only do I not know typeface, I don't even know the difference between printing and joined up writing! Oh, dear. Aleta Curry 14:21, 17 February 2008 (CST)

Well, Hebrew isn't useful for anything, except for a few very specific stuff, like being an archaeologist or living in Israel. Yuval Langer 08:12, 22 February 2008 (CST)

Re Dog/Draft approval

Aleta, Dog/Draft superb. I would vote for replacing the current approved version. I've never put up an approval nomination banner, and do not know if I am authorized. I know Larry's working on a better approval process. If David does not respond to your request, try contacting Larry on the status of the approval process. Meanwhile I'll check to see if I can put up the approval banner.

A couple of thoughts/questions:

• How old the cave paintings? Perhaps you could state.
• What do you think of http://www.dogsindepth.com/
• Don't forget Lassie and Dagwood/Blonde's Daisy!

Nice contribution. --Anthony.Sebastian 15:57, 18 February 2008 (CST)

Thank you so much. I'll look into your suggestions! Aleta Curry 16:02, 18 February 2008 (CST)

Aleta, remember 'Snoopy" and 'Toto'. --Anthony.Sebastian 15:55, 20 February 2008 (CST)

Re Dog/Draft approval

Aleta, see http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ_Talk:Approval_Process#Something_needs_simplification. I will give it a try, but hope others will step in.

BTW: How do we know we can establish better rapport with dogs than with chimps (or bonobos) unless we domesticate the chimps and raise them with us from pups? Consider the question rhetorical. --Anthony.Sebastian 20:01, 18 February 2008 (CST)

LOLOL - spit take my tea! I'm glad you let me know that was rhetorical, in the state I'm in I'd probably be pondering this seriously. I'll look at the thread--and thanks again. Aleta Curry 21:48, 18 February 2008 (CST)

More in the rhetorical category:

Aleta, I have a family member who has always seemed to me — no expert myself — to know a lot about dogs, and I gave the link to your article for her own interest, and asked her if she had any thoughts. She replied as follows. I pass her thoughts on to you for what worth they may have, as I cannot judge. If any have merit you might want to include, you can always save them for next draft.

“Here are a few of my thoughts on the article...

• One thing I noticed in the article is that the author said that dogs mount each other or humans as a sexual behavior, but mounting is actually a mechanism dogs use to establish dominance among the pack. So when they are "humping" it is their way of telling you they are in charge. Either way it is a bad behavior but it is relatively easy to break.

• It also said that after 3 mo. a puppy behavior towards humans is determined based on the amount of nurturing they are shown. I don't believe that is true, many puppies have very little human interaction in their first three months. If shown proper nurturing at any age a dog can always change their behavior.

• Most behavioral problems are the result of the human not the dog.

• In the article the author also mentions that cross-breeding is looked down on because it creates undesirable puppies, but many cross breed dogs like the cockapoo and the labradoodle are mated specifically because they are desirable. These cross breeds generally produce puppies with the more mellow demenor of a lab or cockerspaniel, but with the hypo-allergenic fur of a poodle. The poodle is one of the few breeds of dogs with hypo-allergenic fur, which makes them the most popular dog to cross breed with others.

• It is also worth mentioning that dogs do better when fed a variety of food like they would have in the wild versus standard kibble.

• Lastly, in the ‘choosing and caring for a dog’ section, the author should note the average yearly cost of raising a dog [in the U.S.] is around $1600, with higher costs in the beginning and latter parts of a dog’s life. “

--Anthony.Sebastian 15:51, 20 February 2008 (CST)

Well, first, I am relieved that these are all issues with the current approved version, not with my additions (I'm trying to pass myself off here with some degree of credit :). Except maybe the cross-breeding one, I don't remember how much I edited that.

This (though I hate to admit it) actually illustrates Larry's concerns about us all being "too nice" to just change things. In my defense I have to say that I do not change things written by another professional unless I am absolutely sure--I don't want to look like an idiot.

So here are some responses:

• Mounting behaviour - a very good point, and I'm not a behaviourist per se, so I have to do some research. I do agree with the original author that mounting behaviour is sexual, but there is absolutely a dominance quality about...some? a lot? a bit?...I don't know how much of it..., so I will definitely look into that specifically when I can and adjust the text accordingly.
• Early human contact - another behavioural issue. I think your relative may be right that three months is too early as a strict cutoff time. I shall survey some experts and see if there's a consensus (doubt it) and if there isn't, present some alternative views. The same sort of thing is argued about humans and babies, so I would think there would be differing viewpoints about dogs.
• Behavioural problems the human's fault. I would certainly agree there. I don't know to what that relates, but I will look for it and amend if necessary.
• Cross-breeding. Well, it's looked down upon (too mild a way of putting it) in purebred circles and by animal welfare and "animal rights" folks. The problem with cross-breeding theory is that the proponents of cross breeding always imply or state straight out that the animal with be an improvement on its parents, or that it will have thus-and-so qualities. This simply can not be guaranteed. Also, no animal has hypo-allergenic coat. The poodle has a coat that generally can be tolerated by many who are allergic to fur and dander, but the quality of the pelage of its offspring cannot be guaranteed. In fact, it was the failure of consistently replicable qualities which led to the abandoning of early labradoodle experiments. Having said all that, I'll certainly check the relevant section(s) for balance/bias.
• Food. Definitely. I'll review and make changes if necessary.
• Choosing a dog. I'm really rather against such sections in the first place, as this is so individual a matter. I'll review and add in your relative's suggestion. There is a "choosing a dog" article floating about somewhere, and it's been suggested that that should be a subpage of the Dog cluster. I agree, and what I'd really like to do is merge the material, move the "choosing" article to a subpage, and simply refer the reader to the subpage. That's been on the 'to do' list for a while, I'll move it up a notch.

So, thanks a bunch for referring it to another pair of eyes, and thank your relative for me for taking the time to read it. It's so good to have someone looking at it afresh from the outside.

Aleta Curry 16:22, 20 February 2008 (CST)

Nomination banner up for Dog/Draft

Aleta, Possibly I did a few things right to get Dog/Draft nominated. --Anthony.Sebastian 16:30, 20 February 2008 (CST)

Excellent, thanks. Meanwhile, I keep working on it. In between having a heart attack over fair use. Arrrrgggghhh!!! Aleta Curry 17:10, 20 February 2008 (CST)

Aleta: see http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Talk:Dog/Draft#Nomination_banner_up_for_Dog.2FDraft --Anthony.Sebastian 14:25, 26 February 2008 (CST)

You did it!!!! Congratulations on the Re-Approval of Dog! D. Matt Innis 19:20, 29 February 2008 (CST)

Recipes again

Please have a look at CZ:Proposals/Recipes_Subpage_and_Accompanying_Usage_Policy#Next_steps.3F. Supten Sarbadhikari 23:35, 27 February 2008 (CST)

Rottweiler

Thanks Aleta, the referencing seems quite adequate to me. David E. Volk 17:04, 29 February 2008 (CST)

Oh, good. Thanks for reviewing! Aleta Curry 19:59, 29 February 2008 (CST)

Congrats on March 01 2008 approval of Dog/Draft

Good work, Aleta. --Anthony.Sebastian 19:47, 29 February 2008 (CST)

Thank you, Anthony, for all the support! Aleta Curry 19:55, 29 February 2008 (CST)

Oh Recipes!

Please have a look at CZ:Proposals/Recipes_Subpage_and_Accompanying_Usage_Policy#Concrete_Steps_Ahead and kindly do the needful. Supten Sarbadhikari 22:24, 2 March 2008 (CST)

Getting in early

Hi Aleta

Another bad timing month for me puts me into Berlin all week from tomorrow, with limited internet access. So want to send my apols early. Next one. Promise. --Ian Johnson 09:44, 3 March 2008 (CST)

Awww...what? They don't have computers in Berlin?

Guess I'll have to let you slide.

Well, it's nice to know you didn't forget. See ya soon!

Aleta Curry 18:09, 3 March 2008 (CST)

Template:EZnotice

I created Template:EZnotice with three variables, school, subject, and enddate. Have a look see and tell me what you think. --Robert W King 11:48, 3 March 2008 (CST)

That's fab! Well done. Aleta Curry 18:13, 3 March 2008 (CST)

input requested on naming convention proposal

Please check out CZ:Proposals/Naming Conventions for Biographies#Final review? and respond there; if there is agreement, this proposal will move on to the next stage of adoption. Thanks, Anthony Argyriou 13:52, 3 March 2008 (CST)

inclusion

Here is an example of inclusion, Atom/Catalogs/Magnetic_nuclei. This table actually lives at NMR spectroscopy/Catalogs/Magnetic_nuclei but can be seen in the Atom cluster. A reader would not know this unless they tried to edit the table. Chris Day (talk) 14:28, 4 March 2008 (CST)

Write-a-thon theme

Hi Aleta, is there a theme to the current write-a-thon? Meg Ireland 16:57, 4 March 2008 (CST)

Yes! This month's theme is: "Something you absolutely love!"

Wobbly table

Happy parties, as the Brazilians say at Christmas, & thanks for the note.

I wonder if you can diagnose what's wrong with my table at I (that's as slim a blue link as one will ever see). I'm very new to tables: there must be a missing ingredient to explain why it won't 'take'. Thanks - Ro Thorpe 17:41, 4 March 2008 (CST)

Darlin' I know less than you do about tables. By the time I figured it out, Rob, Joe or Steve would have made short work of it and created lasting world peace. You can contact one of them, or Chris or Matt. I'd just put a "HELP!" note at the talk page; somebody will. Aleta Curry 17:56, 4 March 2008 (CST)

Thanks, I'd already put a note on the talk page: let's hope that'll do it - Ro Thorpe 18:01, 4 March 2008 (CST)

Led Zeppelin

Thank you. I'm absolutely humbled by the experience. I didn't expect anyone to vote for it. Meg Ireland 19:05, 4 March 2008 (CST)

Thanks

For the invite - regretfully I was unable to attend - my long suffering girlfriend proposed on Feb 29 and is now to be long suffering fiance - so we were whooping it up at a real party. kind regards --Russ McGinn 03:49, 5 March 2008 (CST)

Oh! Congratulations! Aleta Curry 04:11, 5 March 2008 (CST)

Hi yourself!

Hi, I think you're gonna have to add me to whichever category you think fit. I've been busy all day, and am now really burned out, and don't feel up to emitting coherent prose at this point today. The good news is I'm somewhat caught up on other areas of my life, and hope to be able to write tomorrow (although I'll probably be working on internal stuff first, alas - no fun writing articles for me :-). J. Noel Chiappa 20:45, 5 March 2008 (CST)

Ha! Sounds like you're entitled to a rest! Take a load off. Aleta Curry 21:29, 5 March 2008 (CST)

Spanish Translation

Aleta, I'm hoping you can lend a hand over at the Calcidius article. We have a Spanish speaking author who has attempted to translate an article from Spanish to English, but the prose is a bit shaky. I know you've been pushing the international thing, so I am hoping you have an idea as to if we have a Spanish speaking citizen with a better grasp on English so we can get a smoother translation out of it? I imagine a non-Spanish speaker could do this, but I fear the quality of the article would suffer. So if you can point me in the right direction, that'd be great. --Todd Coles 21:37, 6 March 2008 (CST)