User talk:Aleta Curry/Archive 1

Apr 07-Oct 07

Aleta Curry

Current talk page

Archive 1, Archive 2, Archive 3, Archive 4, Archive 5, Archive 6

Welcome!

Tasks: start a new article • add basic, wanted or requested articles • add definitions • add metadata • edit new pages

Welcome to the Citizendium! We hope you will contribute boldly and well. Here are pointers for a quick start. You'll probably want to know how to get started as an author. Just look at Getting Started for other helpful "startup" links, our help system and CZ:Home for the top menu of community pages. Be sure to stay abreast of events via Twitter. You can test out editing in the sandbox if you'd like. If you need help to get going, the forum is one option. That's also where we discuss policy and proposals. You can ask any administrator for help, too. Just put a note on their "talk" page. Again, welcome and have fun! See CZ:Discipline Workgroups to add yourself to whichever author workgroups you choose. -- David Tribe 05:10, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Dogs

Nice work. :-) --Stephen Ewen 02:46, 31 May 2007 (CDT)

Aw, shucks! Thank you! Aleta Curry 02:48, 31 May 2007 (CDT)

re: Film

Aleta, it's in the "Workgroups and granularity" forum, but I didn't get many responses. The only opinion voiced other than mine suggested the Media Workgroup for film. Here's a direct link. I recently noticed there is a separate Journalism Workgroup, so the Media Workgroup isn't supposed to be focused on that.

BTW, I agree that the forums are a pit. There's way too many of them for the number of Citizens.

--Eric Winesett 00:41, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the link!Aleta Curry 03:47, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Good job!

That's exactly where it goes! Do you know how to add the checklist? --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:22, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Thanks, and No, and I hate doing such things (sticking out tongue). Are we "allowed" to "checklist" our own stuff? That seems wrong, somehow....Aleta Curry 21:26, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Hehe, YES, not only allowed, but required! Hehe.. It's easy.. look to the left of this page and you will see the checklist under "project pages". Click on it and copy the whole thing. Then go to Talk:Working dog and paste it to the top.. It's that easy ;-) I'll watch if you fall :-) --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:35, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

okay, no "project pages" at the left, PLUS we've got a storm coming and I'm losing power. Must sign off and check back later. Ciao. Aleta Curry 21:38, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Hey, that's cheating! lol. PS> you have to scroll up (we're at the bottom of you talk page) --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:44, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

I *did* scroll up, but missed the black printed headings; I only noticed the bullets--duh! Well, I never claim to be visual--here's proof....Aleta Curry 18:00, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

User:Aleta Curry/dogs

Yep, that is what you do, (though make sure you put a space between your first and last names). Besides, you are the only big-time-important-CZ-person here I think? --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:27, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

checklist

You almost had it! I fixed that one.. (you can review the things I changed in the history). I also added the instructions to the bottom of the checklist to the left so maybe that will help. All you have to do is copy and paste the whole thing to the 'top' of the 'talk' page and fill it in according to the instrcutions, then delete the instructions. Keep trying, I am using you to find out the best way to present this :-) Don't give up! --Matt Innis (Talk) 08:39, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Yay! That's it.. it's all down hill from here ;-) Now you have to teach somebody else, it's a right of passage! By the way - you are allowed to edit the instructions, too! --Matt Innis (Talk) 19:54, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

I have to teach someone else??!!!

Now stop that! I think you're making this up as you go along!

Edit the instructions? Um...

Aleta Curry 17:46, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

CZ Live

You're right, I really wanted to do it. However, there was a substantial opposition and for a reason I respect, see this thread on forum. The only way I see for the moment is to keep CZ Live equal to Internal Articles. And so, CZ is still aLive ;-). Best, --Aleksander Stos 03:53, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

references

It looks like Kjetil beat me to it! - You've got friends. :-) --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:05, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Oh, how splendid! I'll go look! Aleta Curry 20:12, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

re

Alex/Aleks, both are OK, but "Dr Stos" is not acceptable :-) BTW, at times I have a similar problem when addressing people. Maybe we could adopt a guideline (in CZ:Professionalism policy, say) that suggests using the first name as the default. Well, I do not know; there might be some cultural nuances/differences between "continental" and "anglosaxon" approach, and I know only a few samples of the former. --Aleksander Stos 07:13, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

I am probably the very last person on earth--at least of my age--who believes that all persons should be addressed by a courtesy title until otherwise instructed. The problem here, of course, is which one? Cultural norms do come into play--an MD in England would be called Mr, the same person Dr. in the US--even socially. Are all adult females Ms if they are not Dr or Rev? We will have a mishmosh of Misses, Ms-iz and Mrs, I'll be bound.

If first names are the default, I suggest we will always have to use the formal name, until instructed otherwise: ie Charles=Chas, Chuck, Charlie? is Catherine 'Cathy' or 'Cate'? William is Will or Bill? And at least one CZer I have come across prefers to be called by his last name.

Aleta Curry 18:01, 20 July 2007 (CDT) (Aleta, whose nickname was "Tita", but now seems to be "Honey, where's my...?")

popups

Hey, did popups work for you? --Matt Innis (Talk) 08:47, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Hi Matt! Yes they do, thanks, but they don't work the way I thought they would. I had in mind that a box would open with either the first line of the article th popup related to, or a note about the subject (like a Jeopardy! answer, i.e. if you were looking at Christianity the popup for Jesus would say: "Jesus, 1st Century itinerant preacher whom Christians believe to be the Son of God" or some such).

Instead, I get Jesus in bold and a whole bunch of editing tabs. I still have to double click to find out something about Jesus, which takes me out of the article I was looking at into the new one.

Aleta Curry 16:40, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

That is what I get and that is not what it is supposed to be. I'll check your note on the forums. --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:51, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Gay (word)

Aleta, I'm sorry to say so but I would like to take a few steps back with Gay (word) -- the plans I had for expandng this entry, and for giving a thorough and judicious etymological history, have been quite muddled by the last set of edits. I do want to have some attention to US usage in and as it may differ from UK, but it's inaccurate to say the word simply meant "happy"; the OED is a far more authoritative dictionary, and it's the one we need to at least start with before we integrate readings from other sources. Also, there is a political history to the word -- see my comments on the Talk page -- which needs to be expanded. I've also asked Stephen to reinstante the section headers, which would have made this much more clear. Russell Potter 20:51, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

p.s. please pardon my perhaps hasty judgment; I've worked over the article, retaining some very good bits, and expanding. If we can just wait until I'e compiled a more detailed list of dictionary citations, I think we can have a more accurate statement there. It's moving along! Cheers, Russell Potter 21:36, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Hi Aleta, I just wanted to say hi, and let you know I made some comments at the Talk:Gay (word) page. It is nice to see it evolving and pleased to see your interest in it as it grows. --Ian Johnson 08:01, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

p.p.s. as partial penance for my petulance, I've had a go at Marmite. Up next, all those other mystery British foodstuffs: Bovril, Sanatogen tonic wine, Port Negus, and others .... cheers, Russell Potter 07:58, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

Okay, first the compliments, then the smack on the wrist:

Russell, I think you're among the most valuable players on the team and I've been very impressed by your drive and dedication and the extent of your contributions to the project.

Yes, well, maybe your reaction was a little precipitous and the teensiest bit defensive, but we're all guilty of the same from time to time. Come to think of it, in light of the fact that you bothered to write notes rather than just having a fit, I don't think you need that smack on the wrist after all.

So, while I have you in a penitential mood, can I ask for help?

1. I’m looking for the article Ain't Jus'Any Ole Dawgs by Dr. Sally Reed. Bloodlines Magazine Jan./Feb 1992. Quoted at website http://www.thedogplace.com/Reference/TFT/tft_history1.htm

Bloodlines Magazine is published by the United Kennel Club. (Kentucky? USA) Local libraries here can’t help; don’t know if they can do anything if I go beg and plead at the National Library in Canberra, but in any case I can’t afford to make a special trip to do that.

I’m writing to UKC to see if they have a low cost reprint service or something, in the meantime, are you able to find out what public libraries have it, maybe I can contact them? Or some other brilliant idea?

2. If I want to cite an old article, this one: The Boke of St. Albans, by Dame Juliana Berners first published in 1496, and I didn't look at a copy of the original, but at an electronic reproduction of the original in a library, how do I note it?

Ian: Hi from me, too. I hope you get a lot of satisfaction and little agita working on your articles. I'll go look you up on your userpage now.

Okay, that's all from me for the present.

Aleta Curry 17:40, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

I really like the style you bring to your input here. I like to smile, and that is all good. (I loved your witch's cackle laugh BTW.) Don't know if you saw but Russell may have flown the coop today. His user page is where I saw that. I am very new here but I have so far enjoyed a healthy experience of interaction, so 'so far, so good'. Okay, best away for some ZzzZZzzZZsss. --Ian Johnson 17:47, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

roolz

Hey the way I see it, I have 'til the end of Wednesday to do my edit! But I will bow down to you and give you my blessing for putting your name first, since you've already done both. :) I really just put my name there so people would know what one of their options were. --Todd Coles 21:34, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

Just stirrin'--heh heh heh. I was glad to see you fellows getting the ball rolling! Aleta Curry 23:35, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

Ok, ok, now I see you've created 3 new articles. No one likes a show off! :) I guess that ups the ante for next month eh? --Todd Coles 08:51, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Bwah, hyah, hah hah. Catch me if you can! Aleta Curry 16:46, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for your comment on Hebrew Bible, I replied on the talk page. Ciao! David Hoffman 19:03, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Re: Article of the month

Hi,
Ekhem, I do not 100% understand. Did you mean CZ:Article of the Week? If so, then I can see no traces of any dogs :-) (and I can not move it to the end of the list). Could you please provide a link, if applicable? Regarding inaccuracies in the article itself, you're welcome to bring your improvements. Also, feel free to leave your comments on the relevant talk page or to contact an active Biology Editor to propose re-approving the text. Aleksander Stos 02:33, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

Oh, right--so it gets voted on. That's all right, then--I have time. Oh, jeez, there's plenty on the Talk page already--I'm trying to actually make some edits rather than just complaining. Aleta Curry 04:39, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

Look forward to more collaboration

Aleta, I look forward to continued and increased collaboration. I have made lengthy and well-documented arguments against the banishment of the word "Oriental". You may have missed these. You may have seen these but dismissed them as so much nonsense. You may agree with these arguments for all I know. I just wanted to drop you a quick personal note to let you know that I do not easily anger and that I always enjoy exchanging information with dynamic people like yourself. Will Nesbitt 19:40, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

Will, I'm sorry--I left a long post in reply here yesterday, and it seems to have disappeared. The only thing I can think is that I hit 'preview' but did not actually "save".  %^^&(%#*&!!! I'll come back and speak to some of your points later. Apologies, again. Aleta Curry 18:19, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Dogs (photos)

I have some photos of Scottish terriers available CCPL (cc-by-sa) if you need them.

http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/Scottish_farm_(photos)

Also some border collie photos (a few not yet uploaded) and, for what its worth, alpacas and Highland cattle.

Is there some place where links to such photos are listed for possible future use?

James F. Perry 08:25, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Thanks, James! Oh, there's so much to do! I'll definitely have a look, and save this link on my workpage.

Re listing of photos--Stephen seems to be the image guru around here, I would drop him a line.

Aleta Curry 18:28, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Article of (insert time interval here) - Dog

Okay, I'll un-nominate it for now. Did I do this once before? Anyway, I suppose I'm letting my enthusiasm the the best of me.

This is the first time I've seen it. For the record, I think your enthusiasm is just fine. Aleta Curry 18:30, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

Approval recommended

Aleta: I've nominated your article for approval and left some notes and suggestions on my User talk page. Roger Lohmann 07:08, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Thank you! Aleta Curry 17:03, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Anthro workgroup?

As a new editor, I was just checking on the listings in our workgroup - does this article really belong under the Anthropology Workgroup?

Lee R. Berger 14:29, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

Hi Lee--which article? One of mine? Aleta Curry 17:13, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

You are right. It almost certainly doesn't belong there in any narrow, precise disciplinary sense. It also isn't clear that it belongs under Sociology. At least if those categories are taken to mean what most contemporary anthropologists and sociologists mean by them.

But, the real question is - where then would you put it? Under history, I suspect the historians would raise the same questions. Yet, everything, as it is said, has to be someplace. The current classification scheme - which will resolve itself in the end - doesn't necessarily assure that that particular someplace will always be the right place in any precise sense.

Butler is a clear, well written contribution on an interesting and more general topic - I would call it household organization - for which the author has a very clear and stated plan for further development. And human social organization is a topic of both sociology and anthropology, although not necessarily in this exact sense.

Fortunately or otherwise, no suitable word or category yet exists in CZ or beyond for this category. I raised this issue in an earlier posting suggesting additional applied social science categories (this one would probably be something like household-iatrics (i.e., the study of household organization and practice) - home economics or consumer science, perhaps?

I would suggest we not hold the article hostage while we - the CZ community - try to solve this problem of classification. When a later and better classification becomes available, I suspect the author will not object to re-categorizing it. Until then it is, broadly speaking both sociology - knowledge of social relations - and anthropology - knowledge of humans.

So, I'd say let's leave it there for now and let's re-categorize it when a better category comes along.

Hi Aleta,

I think so - Famous dogs and Working dog.

Lee R. Berger 03:13, 12 August 2007 (CDT) Le

write-a-thon

I put the banner up on the main page.. I have no real concept of what time it is in australia, forgive my ignorance. :) --Todd Coles 16:48, 4 September 2007 (CDT)

Thank you! So there IS a party? Huzzah! Aleta Curry 16:52, 4 September 2007 (CDT)

Hey Aleta! Good to see you right in there and partying already - someone has to hit the dancefloor first! Hope you are keeping away from all the APEC lockdown rubbish in Oz. See you and many more in the morning. --Ian Johnson 17:45, 4 September 2007 (CDT)

Oh, yeah--minding my own beeswax on my own little farmlet. Besides, I've been sick---but you can't keep a good woman down! I'm off for breakfast and will see you in the morning! Aleta Curry 18:08, 4 September 2007 (CDT)

Tina Turner and mad max

Tina Turner played in mad max, too. I am not sure how to add that bit of info to the article.

Yeah, and sang Thunderdome...we don't need another hero--not sure what the correct title was....hmmm. I'm going to have to go to bed soon, but maybe I'll think of something brilliant, now or in the morning....Aleta Curry 07:13, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

Sombrero

I think you have this wrong. What you are describing is either a "King Alphonse" or an "angel tip", and the cream must be floated on top, very carefully. I have googled "Sombrero" and it is indeed Kahlua and cream, but a *lot* of cream, and stirred or mixed, sometimes with soda added. I was going to rewrite this article, with a redirect to King Alphonse, but I thought I'd check with you first.... Hayford Peirce 16:39, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

Appreciate the note, Hayford.

Well, the good folks at Google are wrong; a sombrero is definetely NOT stirred or mixed--at least not according to any self-respecting NYC barkeep. As to adding soda (!!!) I can't imagine. The addition I know of is vodka, which makes it a White Russian, and that *is* stirred.

I guess you could say Sombreros are made with "a lot" of cream, and the Kahlua is poured through, the cream is not floated on top, so your King Alphonse may be right; I'm not familiar with it.

Look, things *do* change, and there *are* regional differences. But I'm a purist when it comes to food. I don't do a lot of drinking, but I like getting it right for the few times when I do drink. Sometimes the general simply have it wrong--like the wedding I went to where a vodka-cranberry combination was served in a pitcher by waiters asking if I wanted a "Cosmo". Really, it was more than a body could bear. What I do want, occasionally, is a Cosmopolitan Martini--they were trying to pawn off vodka punch.

So, how do you want to handle it? One article on Kahlua-and-cream drinks sectioned off?

Aleta Curry

I defer to you on the Sombreros. I did a Google that took me to a Kahlua site, and it was the official Kahlua recipe that I noted. I myself have never even *heard* of a Sombrero. But I have been drinking King Alphonses off and on for, oh, 50 years now; they are served in a sherry glass with about an ounce of Kahlua on the bottom and maybe a quarter inch of cream very carefully floated on top to make 2 distinct layers. Maybe a drop of gin in the Kahlua to cut the sweetness slightly. Let's do this: I will create a new article called King Alphonse, with a mention of "Angel Tip". I will also mention Sombreros and say that it is a similar but different drink. Then maybe the two of us can slightly rewrite the Sombrero article *if* necessary.... Hayford Peirce 18:27, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

Works for me! Aleta Curry 18:35, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

The M

See the M on the blue bar? CLick on that and then paste that other stuff in there. --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:35, 9 September 2007 (CDT)

Aw, heck, Matt--that would have been SO MUCH EASIER than my cut-and-pasting all around the mulberry bush!! Aleta Curry 20:41, 9 September 2007 (CDT)

YOU DID IT! Did you see the two things I changed? --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:37, 9 September 2007 (CDT)

Not yet--Head's still spinning. Have you been following me around the garden path fixing my mess-ups? Aleta Curry 20:41, 9 September 2007 (CDT)

Hehe, no.. you did do it! I just fixed two spots..here just subpages9 and here no subpages9

Hey, we did good tonight, but I really really do need to get some sleep, so we can finish tomorrow! Thanks for your help, Matt Innis (Talk) 22:25, 9 September 2007 (CDT)

Well, it was mostly your doing! Bon soir (wierd saying that at half past one in the afternoon! Aleta Curry 22:30, 9 September 2007 (CDT)

Dog article

Aleta- I'll check this week for the article that you want to read. I'll also make a trip to the library of congress to see if they have it in the event I don't find it locally. Do you have a fax number you can be reached at in the event that I locate it at the LoC? --Robert W King 08:35, 29 September 2007 (CDT)

Much appreciated, Rob. I do have a fax no, but I'm in Australia! Can you use my "e-mail this user" link so I'm not posting my phone nos? (Yours isn't activated, btw) Aleta Curry 16:46, 29 September 2007 (CDT)

I feel a Write-a-Thon coming on

Hi Aleta, I just updated the Write-a-Thon page and am looking forward to it a lot. I have been quiet round here lately. Trust me to turn up for the party! If you get a chance, can you check that I did the right time adjusting for NZ as start time? I just changed month and dates, and know you are in Oz, not NZ, but am not sure if daylight saving has already kicked in down that part of the world yet? --Ian Johnson 00:20, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

Lovely to hear from you, Ian. I'm pathetic, moi. I've had to cancel a checkup (for other reasons) but ancilliary joy is that it will leave my day uninterrupted for the write-a-thon! Yay!

I'm not good with time and date, but I'll check. FYI, we're (Eastern time) not on daylight savings yet.

Aleta Curry 15:48, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

Bummer

So sorry to steal your thunder!!! But you sounded soo frustrated. Now you'll have to start another one!! --Matt Innis (Talk) 19:37, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

No problem; I'm now a committed write-a-thon addict! Aleta Curry 19:39, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

Bar

I recommend creating the disambiguation page first, and then creating the alternate pages. In this case, I'd use Bar (alcoholic). --Robert W King 20:54, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

I'm a firm believer in the most common use being the main space. What's the first thing Americans think of when they hear the word "bar"? Aleta Curry 20:57, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

Bars of Gold, bling bling. --Robert W King 21:01, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

Oh, geez, I thought you'd just created that! I was about to give you all kinds of kudos! Aleta Curry 21:05, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

Welcome Aleta!

I know I'm late with this but I keep seeing your name over at the forum and in the changelog on CZ. Thank you for your help! I hope we can get CZ off the ground. Eric M Gearhart

Thanks, Eric. I've been around since about the start of the beta project, so I feel like an old-timer. Not compared to those who started with the pilot, though, so thanks for the welcome! Aleta Curry 17:54, 6 October 2007 (CDT)

I'll see what I can do about Zinfandel. Meanwhile, I think we need a basic article entitled Wine don't you?

BTW, the Great House article is starting to shape up nicely! Is there room for a wine cellar discussion? Roger Lohmann 19:46, 11 October 2007 (CDT)

What?! We have no wine? This will never do! How in Great Caesar's name are we supposed to have parties without wine??

Yes, great house is coming along. I've had a little problem defining the scope--is this about architecture, social structure, house construction...that sort of thing. Also, I'm insisting that the main article should be at great house rather than at mansion. I may be on the losing side of the battle, but I'm not going down without a fight. As always, your thoughts on the matter would be welcome.

So, WRT the wine cellar, yes, certainly there's room for a description, if you think it belongs here in light of the above.

Aleta Curry 16:56, 12 October 2007 (CDT)

Also, I just heard the term grand house employed extensively in a programme hosted by that fellow who plays Baldric on Blackadder, in which they go on archaeological digs. It wasn't just a slip of the tongue, different experts kept referring to the home they were trying to find as a "grand house".

Saying hi, back to you

Aleta, Thanks for the greeting on my talk page. You likely know that old saying "Jack of all trades, master of none"--that's what it has felt like to be me at times--and then I realized that people who can work across disciplines are needed too. Good think I like learning. I think that's you also!Pat Palmer 08:34, 12 October 2007 (CDT)

Ha! I do know, from first-hand experience! Sometimes I think I'm scattered, then I think, no, that's not it--but when you're multi-faceted and/or have more than one talent, it's hard to know what is better indulged/developed when. I also know all too well that Lennon was right: Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans!

Yes, there is a place for us on CZ! I always wanted to grow up to be a Renaissance woman--seem to have made it!

Aleta Curry 17:08, 12 October 2007 (CDT)

Image:Pasqua_mini_fox_terrier_with_pups.jpg

Can you get an email from Christine stating she gives you permission to use that? Just forward it to me and I'll do the mechanics of documenting it for you properly.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 02:27, 13 October 2007 (CDT)

Yes, that's my intention, Stephen. The only reason I uploaded it first was practical: I was uploading something else and noticed this photo was in the same folder and I intended to use it. I know Christine well and she and I are both really involved with something else right now, and since the wording of the e-mail has to be particular for political (for lack of a better word) reasons, I didn't want to just dash off a request to her, or insist on a reply when I know she has a lot on her plate.

Off to church now, BBL. Don't worry; I'm on it, I promise you.

Aleta Curry 17:48, 13 October 2007 (CDT)

Catalog

Hi Aleta, if you go to Talk:Maple and look at the {{subpages}}, you will see the 'unused pages' - click on the 'show button' and catalog is on that list.. click on it and you should be able to create the Maple/Catalog page. Try it and let me know. --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:06, 17 October 2007 (CDT)

In reply to your question. I have assumed that as there is only one catalog page for each article, if we want more than one catalog there, they have to be attached directly to the subpage and listed/linked there. Maybe I am wrong, and we should create more subpages instead... However, the original catalog of famous symponic composers was in the wrong place, because it stood on its own on the wiki. In fact, it was as we always did with catalogs, but in addition linked from the subpage. I hope this is clear :-( --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 02:37, 21 October 2007 (CDT)

Clear as mud--but that's probably because I'm tired. (We had a dog show earlier, and I thought I'd sign on to CZ to unwind, ha, ha.)

Okay, I just look at the catalog pages for garden, belgian cuisine and dog, and it looks like others are making the same mistake I did.

Basically, if you look at the catalog page, you should see a bulleted list of all catalogs for that subject, right? Then you click on that catalog and you go to that page. I don't think that's what's happening. So e.g. the Belgian cuisine page lists waffles, etc. etc. when really it should list

Catalog of Belgian foods--then if you click on that internal link, you get pommes frites, beer, chocolate, etc.

Catalog of Belgian restaurants in New York City

Catalog of famous Belgian chefs

Catalog of Belgian food critics

So, I now think that's the way it should work, but that's not what I've been doing, and from what I can tell, not what others are doing, either

Aleta Curry 02:48, 21 October 2007 (CDT)

Well, I am not 100% sure I am right. We'd better ask someone else. Let me go and look at those other pages you mention. I think the subpage use has not really been sorted out yet... --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 02:55, 21 October 2007 (CDT) I've asked Stephen Ewen for his opinion: he may tell you directly, too. --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 03:05, 21 October 2007 (CDT)

I shall wait to hear more. I have to do some catalogs for garden, and don't know where to put them. Aleta Curry 22:29, 21 October 2007 (CDT)

Well, I asked and got no reply, LOL. As Larry has added to the famous symphonies catalog, presumably it is done correctly there. By the way, to create that location, I just typed the address into the top bar, using a directory division of the root catalog page.--Martin Baldwin-Edwards 22:45, 21 October 2007 (CDT)

Do I detect a request that we fill in CZ:Catalogs, finally?  :-) And maybe expand CZ:Subpages or maybe write CZ:Subpages tutorial? --Larry Sanger 23:03, 21 October 2007 (CDT)

Short answers: yes, yes, and probably. Someone has to explain catalog of religions (wrong), gardens/catalog (wrong), same for catalog of Belgian cuisine, and tennis/catalogs/famous tennis players, which is right as far as I can tell, but my link to it doesn't work so obviously I'm not the person to write this! Aleta Curry 23:14, 21 October 2007 (CDT)

As I understand it, it is exactly the same principle as directories and subdirectories on any operating system, including windows. So, the Main article is divided into subpages [or subdirectories] and we put the actual catalogs as subpages [or subdirectories] of the specific subpage Catalogs attached to a specific article. It is just an organising principle, Aleta. --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 23:22, 21 October 2007 (CDT)

Well, yeah--we just all have to organise the same way! Aleta Curry 23:58, 21 October 2007 (CDT)

For some background, when i was thinking about the subpage hierarchy, for simplicity I only wanted subpages. However, it became clear that some subpages were going to get too bloated. For this reason the concept of sub-subpages had to be considered, despite the significant hurdles in getting the template to work on those pages. I guess what I'm saying is the decision was not taken on a whim. (Note: currently sub-subpages functionality is only coded for Timelines, Catalogs and Signed Articles subpages.)

What instigated the idea of sub-subpages was the signed articles. It was clear that each signed article would need to live at a unique page. But if any article started to collect signed articles in its subpages you can see how this might become a problem as the number of subpage tabs starts to increase. Especially, what are the tabs going to be called? For this reason each signed article is relegated to the depth of the sub-subpage and a table of contents is placed on the "Signed Article" subpage.

After more thought Timlines and catalogs seemed to be heading for a similar problem. One can imagine multiple timelines and catalogs for any given article. Using a table of contents in conjunction with sub-subpages solves this issue as the pages become more bloated. However, i see no reason why an article with a single timeline or catalog cannot have it located on the subpage. In fact, I think this would be preferable.

In short, catalogs can be on the subpage if there is only one or two of them but should be moved to sub-subpages if this is preferable from an organisational perspective (my guess is that more than two catalogs would be a reason to do this). I don't think there is a right or wrong way to do this, each article will be unique with respect to the best solution. Chris Day (talk) 02:58, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Okay! The light dawns! That all makes sense. Now, is there a shortcut to creating sub subpages, or do we have to type the address? Aleta Curry 04:34, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Type in I'm afraid. But the reason for that is that it is not a generic page and you can have any name you choose. Chris Day (talk) 04:50, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Uh-huh...uh-oh. So now all I have to do is remember the proper address type. Yeah, right. Well, Martin seems to know it; I suppose I can follow him all around the wiki copying his code....Aleta Curry 15:34, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Easier than remembering the whole address is to go to the subpage of interest, in this case "catalogs". In the url address at the top of your browser add a backslash followed by the name of your new catalog. Hit return and you'll get the "page does not exist" page with an option to create said new page, i.e. the new sub-subpage.. Does that sound easy? Chris Day (talk) 15:40, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

As pie!!! Thanks! Aleta Curry 15:43, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

LOL, Aleta. I will sell the code for a good price:-) Chris, don't you mean forward slash [someone is using MS-DOS too much!]. --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 16:10, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Forward slash, back slash, aren't they all the same? As you can tell I'm a MAC user :) Chris Day (talk) 16:21, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Selling code? This is what academics have been reduced to?!

Just out of curiosity, who's gonna put all this info in CZ:Catalogs and CZ:Subpages? (I nominate Chris!)

Aleta Curry 16:34, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

I just knew you were going to say that! Chris Day (talk) 21:05, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Hyah, nyah, nyah, ha, ha. That's what you get for being good at what you do! Aleta Curry 21:09, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Archives?

Okay, you guys are just too fast for me!

a) how did that get there?

b) how do I put stuff into the archive box??????

Aleta Curry 21:21, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

You can just cut and paste from here to there, if you choose. Or would you like to "move" it there so the edit history is preserved at the archive rather than at this page? Chris Day (talk) 22:12, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Hmmm...don't rightly know. I guess if I do a "move" I move everything? But I suppose I could always copy back anything I wanted to leave here. Hmmmm...I'll think about it. Thanks again, Chris Aleta Curry 22:28, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Yes, you can always copy back. No reason why you can't have bits in two place too. For the record, i cut and paste so the full edit history for my talk page is intact on one page. The disadvantage of this strategy is that if someone links to a section on your talk page, once the archiving has occurred that link no longer works. It is for this reason that a move is desirable to some since those kinds of links are preserved. Personally, I prefer to have the whole edit history on one page and care less about the broken links. Chris Day (talk) 23:17, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Ahh, I see Chris beat me to it! I see you're in good hands now ;-) --Matt Innis (Talk) 02:00, 23 October 2007 (CDT)