User talk:Stephen Ewen/Archive 7

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Don the Beach, Trader Vic, and Lawry's menus

Hi Stephen, What about the three following images, all of which I scanned and put into Wiki articles: I want to rewrite these articles for CZ and would sure like to include the images....

Many thanks for taking care of that! I will get around to doing something about Trader Vic's and Lawry's eventually. Since they're still in business in a straight run since the 1930s, it ought to be possible to email someone in the corporate suites to ask for specific permission.Hayford Peirce 12:37, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
I've put in a bigger, brighter image -- thanks for pointing this out!Hayford Peirce 15:25, 3 July 2007 (CDT)


Thanks for the suggestions. I have no intentions of going to grad school unless the courses of my career ordain that as necessary. So far I am pretty satisfied with my 16 years of education. ...said Michael Yates (talk) (Please sign your talk page posts by simply adding four tildes, ~~~~.)


I don't think it's a watermark; he is standing in front of the seal of the NLM. Is it ok to return it? Fixed the other pic by changing from png to jpg. Seemed to do the trick--John J. Dennehy 22:22, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

At first I thought it was like you are saying. It's watermarked, though, check his trousers, and the images in that particular collection at NLM are subject to copyright, they say. I've already emailed them to use the image and to get one non-watermarked, and included a link to where the image will go. It's better when they look at the article that they do not see the watermarked image there! That's the central reason I tagged it out. Just give it a bit of time, the wheels will turn and we'll get the image clean and clear. :-) Stephen Ewen 22:33, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
huh thats spooky... his head definitely seems in front of it. i did not notice the pants. good eye and thx.--John J. Dennehy 23:06, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Talk page

I am sure you meant to comment on my talk page as opposed to on my user page, so I fixed(moved it). And I will. Thanks, --Robert W King 22:23, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Duh, sorry, I'm trying to do too many things at once. :-) --Stephen Ewen 22:34, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Homemade camembert image

Yeah, I saw that an hour or so ago and was scratching my head -- did *I* put in that info about the camera etc.!? If everyone could be so kind! Hayford Peirce 23:10, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

I can't take credit for the camera info, that is a feature of the Mediawiki software, something it has been made to do automatically if such "metadata" is available in the image. :-) Stephen Ewen 23:16, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Dr. Sculerati

Did Dr. Sculerati leave us? Yi Zhe Wu 09:43, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

I'm wondering the same!! --Robert W King 09:59, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
She is on summer vacation. ---Stephen Ewen 12:45, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
People on summer vacation delete their accounts?--Robert W King 13:17, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
Huh? Well, sheesh. Give her an email. Stephen Ewen 13:17, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
B-b-but... this is a constable issue! --Robert W King 13:23, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
She is a personnel administrator. That means she is a sysop. She can delete pages on her own. See Special:Log/delete. ---Stephen Ewen 13:22, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
So she didn't resign, right? Yi Zhe Wu 13:28, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
I honestly don't know, Yi. You can email her. ---Stephen Ewen 13:32, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
I've been in touch with Nancy, and she's decided for now to leave the project. I don't want to speak for her, but I know she's done this for very principled reasons. I also know that I, and a great many others here, will miss her presence, her energy and guidance and collegiality -- enormously! Russell Potter 13:44, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
I will miss her too! Maybe I will email Dr. Sculerati later. Do we need to find another medical doctor to edit all the medicine articles left unapproved sooner or later though? Yi Zhe Wu 13:47, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
I have no doubt that everyone posting in this thread will notice her absence. I, for one, always looked forward to Dr. Sculerati's posts--I always held her in high regard and valued all of her input whether it affected a subject I was working on or not. I hope she decides to return someday.--Robert W King 13:51, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
I'll miss her. She was the first to welcome me to CZ. --Yim Kai-mun 02:56, 17 July 2007 (CDT)


The first time I made the Zombie recipe I made *one* for myself -- and felt woozie for about 2 days. Now I've managed to reach the point where I can get through 2 of them in the course of an evening and still manage to function the next day. Whether or not that is progress is, of course, debatable! By the way, would you check out the Don the Beach pix I gave links to in an above message and let me know about them -- I'd like to put these pix into articles if you allow them....Thanks! Hayford Peirce 13:54, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

I'm worried that Hayford is, in actuality, a raving alcoholic. Let's make sure to keep tabs on his edits for massive amounts of typographical errors. (Only in jest, Hayford.)--Robert W King 13:54, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
I think I'll have the Shirley Temple, extra grenadine. :-) --Stephen Ewen 14:07, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Mai tai image

I fixed the source -- I dunno what went wrong with it before.... Hayford Peirce 23:16, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

nominate for approval

as Military workgroup editor I am pleased to nominate "Terrorism" for approval. (My role was minimal). Richard Jensen 00:03, 27 June 2007 (CDT)


Ok Stephen, how on earth can I use css on mediawiki to create a graphic template? I want to use CSS to make the NFPA panel using html draw methods, but can't figure it out. Any ideas? (see for example)--Robert W King 17:19, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

That's over my head. User:Chris Day might be able to help. ---Stephen Ewen 22:30, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Hayford's Bar and Grill

Looks great to me, but how about adding the "Grill"? That would encompass the french fries (with Mayo, as some ppl eat them), plus mebbe a future article on hamburgers and other casual food.... Bon appetit!Hayford Peirce 22:52, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

Ah! How short-sighted of me! You are perfectly right, of course.
Ah, man... I am hungry again.. --Matt Innis (Talk) 23:29, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

I don't suppose you're serious, but why not? A sense of humor never hurt anyone. Greg Woodhouse 23:42, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

That's hilarious, the various Bar & Grill stuff, especially the Zombie business and its price. The taxi pic is terrific! I realise that this is all to amuse, and that funny text is being put in, but should I correct Burgundy to Normandy for the camembert, for instance, or is that just an in-joke? I think, actually, that taxis only look like that to me after *three* Zombies, reprobate that I am. Tomorrow maybe I'll write an article about Navy grog, after that someone has to have to the courage to tackle Hamburger, for which I caught a lot of flak at WP. And how about Vitello tonatto? Thanks for keeping a light touch here! (I just had the greatest fries in the world for dinner tonight, I think I should start an article about Religion: French Fries According to the Doctrine of Joel Robuchon).... Hayford Peirce 23:38, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
Hayford is referring to this. LOL to the fries. Yes, Normandy was a joke. Are you telling me that somehow Hamburger is a controversial article?  :-) Stephen Ewen 23:47, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
I had a photo of an iconic 4th of July hamburger with a flag stuck in the burger. Geez! Anyway, if I do the burger article, I'll put in the same photo, also for the Fourth of July article, and you can roast me also....Hayford Peirce 00:42, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

Table of contents

Hi, do you know how to move the table of contents of an article to the right or left? Thanks! Yi Zhe Wu 20:33, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Sure. Just use {{TOC-right}} . ---Stephen Ewen 20:38, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
Hey, that was fun! --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:50, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
The menu, right? :-D ---Stephen Ewen 20:54, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
Yeah, all of a sudden Race (biology) had a TOC on the right! --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:57, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
I think it is very nice for articles that really do not need an image. ---Stephen Ewen 20:59, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
I didn't edit that, I moved the toc of Catalog of rock bands, a list I just wrote. Some of the facts regarding the band's city of origin are from WP, but I don't think the checkbox should be checked because no quote was used, just the facts themselves. Yi Zhe Wu 20:57, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
Boy, your user page is strange :-D --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:04, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
You are referring to the table of contents, or something else? Yi Zhe Wu 21:03, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
Something else, Yi, another silly thing going on like Chicken chicken chicken. Your page looks good. BTW, I added it to Race (biology). Stephen Ewen 21:27, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
BTW, your car image for zombie can be an effective U.S. government propaganda against lowering drinking age. Yi Zhe Wu 21:37, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
Amazing what one can do in just a few minutes and a few free tools. I made that with and UnFREEz. Stephen Ewen 21:39, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
And possibly the ignorant educators (hopefully you aren't one of them, though you are an educator) would pick the image up and show it in classrooms to illustrate harms of alcohol. Yi Zhe Wu 22:28, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
Yi, I am having a bit of fun here but believe me, I take alcoholism very seriously. What I have found is that a classroom is typically filled with students whose own stories form powerful narratives against it. Stephen Ewen 22:30, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
Sorry if it was offensive...but seriously, most of us teenagers take those alcoholism education in class nothing more than BS, it's the reality, and it may be sad for some. I'm not an alcohol drinker, but I personally take it as a personal freedom issue. Yi Zhe Wu 22:45, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
And I like the fact that you realize that you have the freedom to choose not to drink, something that our generation seemed to ignore. Keep it up, Yi. --Matt Innis (Talk) 22:55, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
Yi, I agree that most drug and alcohol education could be done exceedingly better. Most curriculums use fear as the primary tactic. Reality works so much better, and all the reality most adult educators need is sitting right inside most classrooms. If educators of teens, as adult educators have, had more freedom to follow critical pedagogy in classrooms and to base "the curriculum" on the authentic student-held themes that emerged from each classroom of students, more authentic education would result. Classrooms of teens typically have numerous students in them whose lives have been, and are continuing to be, damaged by a loved one controlled by alcohol or drugs, and if their own narratives were released within classrooms and used as springboards, authentic education would better result in this matter. My own philosophy on alcohol is: An adult may have it, but it may not have them. Obviously, that implies serious moderation. I live by that. I also seriously doubt whether most adults under 30 have the maturity to take that approach. Accordingly, I honestly wish the minimum drinking age were 30. Not at all libertatrian, but there you have it. ---Stephen Ewen 23:08, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
Problem is that all cars look like that to Hayford :-D --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:38, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
Wait a minute. That's a car? :-D ---Stephen Ewen 21:36, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
I don't think it's a chicken.. is it? --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:49, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Burger picture

If I'm really feeling debauched, I sometimes put some bearnaise sauce on them. If I have any floating around in the fridge, that is. Maybe you could PhotoShop some on top of the burger in the picture....Hayford Peirce 13:10, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

I think that there's *no* question that the burger as we know it (ground, cooked beef, inside a round bun) is a purely American invention. It can be debated who and when, but not that it's American. Sure, ground beef has been around in many cultures, ditto for sausages, but it wuz us 'Merkins that put them inside soft, doughy rolls and turned them into Hamburgers and Hot Dogs. For good or evil, who knows? But those are the historical facts.... Hayford Peirce 13:14, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
And so be it. I like 'em best with BBQ sauce, or with grilled sliced mushrooms and swiss cheese. My kids really like this on 'em, me too  :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 13:20, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
Pure tabasco? Good grief! Do you guys live in Loo-Zee-Anna? I myself have been eating LAMBburgers for the last 3 years -- they have more flavor. With sharp Cheddar cheese. And lotsa butter on the roll. Once in a while I cook sliced onions in butter until they turn into jam and put them on.... Delicious! Hayford Peirce 14:09, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
That's Tobasco worcestershire sauce. :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 15:00, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
Ah. Even so, I wager it's spicier than the standard Lea & Perkins. I put a little W. sauce into my gala recipe for 4th of July burgers, however, made with beef, not lamb, plus various other ingredients. Super great, but too flavorsome (and too much work) to make more often than 3 or 4 times a year. Hayford Peirce 15:13, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
Lambburgers. Yum! I like buffalo burgers and venison sausages in place of the standard burgers and hot dogs. --Joe Quick (Talk) 16:17, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
Since buffalo is generally promoted as being so *low*-fat, is there enough fat in their burgers to give them any flavor? The lambburgers, which probably have a fairly high fat ratio, are incomparable juicy. Hayford Peirce 16:36, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
Buffalo is delicious, ostrich is even better. Elk burgers are wonderful, venison burgers are...venison, and its best usage is as sausage as Joe likes. I will often select ground lamb over chops because it avoids the striation, but never had it on a burger. Having grilled beef burgers tonight, topped with Cheddar Chipotle cheese, grilled peppers and onions, and fresh-made salsa of tomato, avocado, onion, green, red, Serrano and chipotle peppers, cilantro, garlic and lime. :D  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 17:08, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
Well that settles it. I'm having dinner at Stephen's house. ;-) I've never had ostrich but buffalo is mighty tasty. If it's made properly, it has a lot more flavor than beef but a lot of people tend to cook all of the juice out so you have to pay attention. Much less greasy too, which I like. --Joe Quick (Talk) 17:32, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

Making useful pages just for moi

The preceeding conversation is making me exceedingly hungry and it's half past ten in the morning and not time for a hamburger--not that I haven't done that....

Anyway, I need to know how I can make those extra pages that I see people use where they put stuff they're working on. I want to make a page to organize dog topics until the topic/category thing can be sorted out. Do I just do user:Aleta Curry/dogs and start typing? (Are only big-time-important-CZ-people allowed to take up space like this?) Aleta Curry 19:39, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

User space is just that, userspace, and if its project related, anyone can create any number of pages such as you are proposing.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 22:12, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
So that I could create an article called user:Hayford Peirce/How to barbecue people who disagree with me about tarragon in bearnaise sauce and use it for all of my initial writes and rewrites about that particular topic? But then what? After the article has been created. Mark it for speedy deletion? Hayford Peirce 23:21, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
Well, that usage would certainly be stretching it. :-D  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 23:33, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
I know I'm going to be sorry I asked this, but what is your postion on tarragon in sauce bearnaise? Aleta Curry 19:01, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
Very orthodox, nothing to be worried about: without tarragon, it really can't be called bearnaise -- that's its key seasoning.... Hayford Peirce 19:15, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
Good, you had me scared. Are you also going to work on Hollandaise? Aleta Curry 18:51, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Please delete...

the following template: The correct and perfected version is Template:NFPA and I put a speedydelete on the first one.

Thanks in advance, Me. --Robert W King 14:34, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Thanks much. Also, I believe it's time to archive your talk page! --Robert W King 14:47, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
Wow! Congratulations, gentlemen! That is quite a feat of template prowess.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 01:55, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
I just served to idiot proof it. Robert did it all. Chris Day (talk) 01:58, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
Well, I am indeed impressed. :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 02:03, 4 July 2007 (CDT)


Hi Stephen,

Many thanks for the note on John Franklin on the Approvals Announcement page. I've added the other three nominees I'm aware of. Also, it looks as though Félix d'Hérelle is overdue for Approval, it would be great to be able to announce that as well. Sorry, I've been out of town for a few days and neglecting my approval duties; thanks for lending a hand! Russell Potter 08:54, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Vitello tonnato

Hi Stephen, I'm just totalled confused about this image business. If you go to the vitello tonnato picture at:

over on the right, under Additional Information, we see "Some rights reserved".

If you click on that, you get:

Isn't that saying we *can* use this picture as long as we attribute it?

I'm just absolutely baffled by this whole image can of worms! Hayford Peirce 13:06, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Oh, I bet you're confused. This is because she just changed the licensing info about 30 minutes ago! I just got an email from her saying so. :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 14:14, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
Geez! Mebbe I'll go back to WP -- life seemed simpler then! Thanks, Hayford Peirce 14:16, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
Somehow you must have gotten that image mixed up with another marked creative commons. She really had it marked Copyrighted all rights reserved. So I emailed her last night to ask her to release it under a creative commons license. She did, then emailed me about half an hour ago saying she had changed the licensing data at the image page at Flickr.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 14:21, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
Verra strange. I was *sure* that it said "some rights reserved, or some such. And that if you clicked on the pic it said that it could be used subject to various conditions. Oh, well, thanks for your very prompt action on this -- and, of course, her changing the conditions.... Hayford Peirce 02:43, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
Man, people at Flickr have overall been a joy to work with. I have never been turned down even one time when asking an author to release one of their images under a free license. Nor even once has a pseudonymous author declined to reveal their name, although a time or two I had to remove the reference to their Flickr page in that case. Simply, it's a great source--although there can be a lot of junk to wade through, which can take some time, there are some professional or near professional quality photos there.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 02:54, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
You're right, there are certainly some high-quality pix there! But also, of course, a lot of junk to wade through. I'm glad to hear also that everyone seems so eager to release their rights. But everyone wants to be famous -- my ex-GF was thrilled to have the pic of her hitting the volley turn up in the tennis article: since she's from Beijing, maybe by now a million Chinese people have visited CZ, however briefly.... Hayford Peirce 11:44, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

moved Labrador retriever

Stephen (or other CZ Legend reading this), I just did this:

Move page

Page "Labrador retriever" moved to "Labrador Retriever".

The corresponding talk page was also moved.

I did this because it is a proper name and should take caps on both words IMHO. Can you just confirm that this is right according to CZ policy?

I will check the What Links Here.


Aleta Curry 18:50, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Yep, you're right. Labrador Retriever is a proper noun. See CZ:Naming_Conventions  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 18:50, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Image:British Army in Concord Detail.jpg

Thanks for adding the source and stuff. I guess Wikipedia isn't the best place to find reliable images. --Charles Sandberg 08:35, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

inside photos of Don the Beach restaurant, plus his fantastic tree-house dining-room/office in Honolulu

I've got dozens of them -- BUT they're old photos inside the Phoebe Beach book: so if I scan them, can we try to use them? Hayford Peirce 23:50, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Pick out maybe two or four. If we find Phoebe, ask about them too, as step one.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 23:53, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
See and see the image of Don attributed to apparently the restaurant in Hawaii?  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 00:00, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
A pic from the 50s is at  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 00:02, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
Yup, that's the same little room I first sat in when I was about 15 and drank (or sipped) my first Navy Grogs and ate the best spareribs of all time (until I finally replicated them).... :( It's probably my favorite restaurant of all time, which includes many great ones in France.... Hayford Peirce 00:14, 6 July 2007 (CDT)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 00:09, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
That's great! I hadn't seen it before, although some of the pictures are familiar to me from various sources.Hayford Peirce 00:22, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Don the Beach menu dates

The COPYRIGHT on the menu says 1941, but the menu itself dates from at least 1959 -- I forget the internal evidence but I can did it up somewhere -- the prices, primarily.... Hayford Peirce

Ok. I'll fix.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 00:32, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Questions about external CZ mirrors and images

Hi Steven, we know that some external sites have regularly been scanning and mirroring the wikipedia, e.g. Answers. Example: WP-article & Answers-mirror. Will this happen with CZ content also? (Is it already happening?) Or will it depend on the eventual CZ-license? Because if e.g. we/you decide to provide contents under a free license similar to WP, we would have to find a way to prevent copyrighted and CZ-only-licensed images to be mirrored with the text content, probably in a similar manner that one uses little scripts (php?) to block off bots and google etc. that regularly try to scan your website. [If this were to be implemented I'd also suggest extending the google- & bot-blocking to the authors' and editors' user pages on CZ, because frankly I don't want my personal information to float around on the web unrestricted. At the moment it wouldn't be a problem, but who knows what some of the user pages will look like in a few months or a year or two.] Any info (or even decisions already) on the external mirrors issue? Cheers, —Arne Eickenberg 06:46, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Cat image

Stephen, I think that this picture should be removed. There is no copyright information and the uploader is a red link. Versuri 07:44, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Culinary arts

That's a mouth-watering pic of the steaks, even though I've just finished dinner! Which reminds me: whatever came of the suggestion that we create a "Culinary Arts" workshop or category or whatever you call it to replace the existing "Food Science"? I think that's a much better one. Who can create it -- and move the stuff from the old one there? You? Larry? A consortium of Citizendiums? Me? Anyone? I wish it would be done.... Hayford Peirce 23:09, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Propose it at,5.0.html  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 23:33, 6 July 2007 (CDT)


There is an approval waiting at DNA. Your tiurn this time ahead of Matt. David Tribe 00:53, 7 July 2007 (CDT)

Done!  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 01:27, 7 July 2007 (CDT)

New Don the Beachcomber pictures

Hi, Stephen. I was surprised to see that in my Beachcomber book the pictures were not as good, or as a propos, as I thought. I have, however, scanned and uploaded the following two:

I didn't put anything at all in the Permission section but put in as much other info as I could. I have not yet put them into any article and will wait for your go-ahead before doing so. I'd appreciate it if, at your leisure you could take a look at them and add whatever permissions and/or caveats you think fit. Thanks! Hayford Peirce 13:41, 7 July 2007 (CDT)


Speedy delete yes in MHO. No big deal. David Tribe 23:46, 7 July 2007 (CDT)


Hi Stephen,

Trying to get things moving with Joan of Arc -- I see that Richard Jensen has said he's happy with it; Matt asked him if he wanted to update the tag but I haven't seen a followup to that request on either Matt's, Richard's or the article's Talk pages. It will soon be two days past the approval date, so I'm hoping that we can get this resolved soon and move on to the next articles. Since you're about at the moment, if you could take a look and see if you agree we can go ahead, I'd be grateful as ever. Cheers, Russell Potter 19:43, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

I just now updated the approval for tomorrow. Richard Jensen 21:59, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
OK Richard, thanks, looks good. Russell Potter 22:21, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

anthro subpages

To truely see the capability of the subpage7 template you should delete a couple of the optional subpages in the anthro series so that we can visualise how a tab to a non existant page will look in situ. Chris Day (talk) 12:03, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

Yes, good idea - done!  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 12:03, 10 July 2007 (CDT)


Hi Steve,

Regarding this edit, is it so that I shouldn't create subpages until they are "official policy"? --Kjetil Ree 18:23, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

You beat me by 10 seconds. Let us keep the discussion at User talk:Kjetil Ree. --Kjetil Ree 18:24, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

subpage pilot experiment

Since the article Jefferson Airplane, which I imported and revised, is very long, I used the subpages as an experiment. However, Jefferson Airplane/Discography doesn't appear in the infoset, how can I make the link on the infoset? Thanks! ...said Yi Zhe Wu (talk) (Please sign your talk page posts by simply adding four tildes, ~~~~.)

Look now. :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 13:10, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
Oh wow, thanks, how did you do that? Yi Zhe Wu 13:32, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
See here.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 13:30, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
Ohh, but if every new kind of subpage require an addition to the template, that would be...unimaginably long. Any way to make it more flexible? Yi Zhe Wu 13:36, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
It can have dozens and dozens and dozens of entries. You will note a little code ifexist in the template. That means only if the subpage exists then it shows up. The other way is with code that requires more user input, see Bonny Hicks and click on the edit button. I like the latter design much better; it could be made to work with ifexist.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 13:43, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
Just out of interest, what is your rationale for liking more user input. Chris Day (talk) 14:00, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
Sorry, I was not clear. I am saying I'd like the visual design of the tabs better but with the ifexist functionality.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 15:42, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
Oh I see now. I misread the comment. Chris Day (talk) 20:52, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Drafts? Hello-o?

Okay, so apparently *everyone* thinks it's a great idea to start articles with drafts, but what are we doing about it? The thread seems to have died. Aleta Curry 21:40, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Start articles in mainspace for now. :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 22:14, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

There's English, and then there's English

Well, Martin seems to want the discussion to stop--at least the cantankerous portions of it--but I did want to answer you.

As a person raised in CE who is fluent in AE, I would just say that it's silly to pretend we have two languages here. Certainly, we have two dialects, and the differences are many more than just a few word endings, as has already been pointed out.

I do not see where we have the wherewithal to write two English Citizendia, nor do I see this as anything other than duplication and waste of effort.

Having said that, I will certainly resist the use of American-English only.

Aleta Curry 21:47, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

I agree. By now, the fellow at the Forum seems like an ideologue to me, who for me is best ignored.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 22:14, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Adding someone else's talk page to one's watchlist

Is this considered acceptable and polite at CZ? Only I find that I ask questions and then lose track of where to go for the answers. Not only that, but there are other good things that I find at your (and Matt's, and...) discussion page, so is it all right for me to put it on my watchlist? Aleta Curry 21:50, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

It is considered not only acceptable but good practice to place people's talk page on your watchlist. Feel free to place anyone's talk page on your watchlist without ever needing to ask. By the way, in your Preferences you can set it so all pages you reply to are automatically placed into your watchlist.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 22:10, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Approved article copyedit

Stephen, there is a line in the Approved Chiropractic article that has a copyedit. I made it a logn time ago in the draft, but that was before we had the copyeditor rules. As I am an editor and can't make the change, could you take the second "from" out of this sentence in the first paragraph:

  • As a fundamental concept in chiropractic, subluxations were originally conceived as obstructions to the full flow of "innate intelligence" from from mind to body.

--Matt Innis (Talk) 15:34, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Done!  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 16:37, 16 July 2007 (CDT)


Hi Stephen, I've been playing with another concept at athropology. The idea is to have a list of the subpages that are not used as well as those that are used (using ifexist for absense and presence parameters). In this scenario there are only tabs for those subpages in the infoset. Chris Day (talk) 15:44, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Very nice! I note that when I created another subpage it kept proportion. :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 16:11, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
That was the goal. Not sure how well it will work in other browsers. Clearly this is still crude but it introduces some new concepts that I think will be important for the subpage discussion. Chris Day (talk) 16:21, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
Hey, looks great. Maybe we can incorporate the "approved" vs "under construction" concept into the tab title. In other words, where it says "Main article", maybe it could say Draft until it is approved, then it would say "Approved article". Something along the lines that Aleta was talking about on the forum. --Matt Innis (Talk) 16:23, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
So Matt, I'm not quite sure I follow here. Are you saying instead of two tabs, (Main article and draft) have only one tab that says either approved or draft? If there is an approved version are you saying we rely on the link in the approved template? I might add that the current subpages9 template assumes that there is both an approved article (that might be the under contruction template alone) AND a draft version for all articles. We could adapt the code to only have an approved tab when there is no underconstruction template. Interest to hear both your thoughts here. Chris Day (talk) 21:57, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

I made a very basic {{Construction}} that might be minimally helpful.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 16:33, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Matt and Stephen, feel free to add your personal touches to subpages9 template. i like the way you are thinking. Chris Day (talk) 16:41, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Hi Stephen, I have made a subtle change to the functionality of the subpages9 template. I modified it so that the unused subpages only appear when an author is on the draft page. I figure that readers would not care but those working on the draft version would care. Chris Day (talk) 21:51, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

More thoughts here. It would be possible to include various different messages templates below the tabs. in the grey area. I wonder if that would be a good spot for disclaimers and approved messages? Chris Day (talk) 22:00, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Chris, that is an incredibly good idea to have unused subpages only show on draft pages. Very nice. I also like the idea of other messages going in the gray area, below, or somehow being incorporated in the template. In this way, the along-the-top instance serves these two purposes.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 22:43, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
Hi Stephen, just finished off subpages9. I never could figure out what was wrong with using the nowiki code for line breaks so I have concatermerised the ifeq: statements. It's not pretty but it seems to work for now. Each tab is now associated with a template, although, i have only made the {{Draft tab}} one to date. Obviously the approval template can be incorporated into this scheme (as you did with subpages10). Thinking aloud here, I think we should be able to us a subpages template with variables that then plug into the approval template. For example, {{subpages|editor=Chris|group=biology}} has two variables that can be used in the embedded approval template. I'm pretty sure this is possible as something similar was done for the workgroup templates. Chris Day (talk) 02:19, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

Stephen, if you're interested in experimenting wih the approval template in the Main article tab you can add variables to the subpages template. See the example I tried set up at the gallery in life. I replaced the Gallery tab template with the {{Galllery header}} (see edit here). I then added the variables to the subpages template in life, in the following formatt ({{subpages9|group=biology|approved=yes}}). Chris Day (talk) 03:15, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

If only it was so simple. The use of the gallery header template still needs trouble shooting. Chris Day (talk) 09:20, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

Heads up

Hey Steve, cheers for the heads-up. I'll admit I'm a bit clueless when it comes to wiki technology, but I'm sure I'll learn it all in good time.--Yim Kai-mun 21:53, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Okay, if you ever need help, just ask. :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 21:55, 16 July 2007 (CDT)


I sure will. :)--Yim Kai-mun 21:58, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Danged Images

I've got a bunch of images from the wiki articles that I've downloaded to my hard drive. So the thing is, once I've uploaded them to CZ, how the #$%^ do I link them to my main articles? That's the issue driving me nuts. Is it a problem with linkage, file name or what?--Yim Kai-mun 22:17, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

First of be aware that only images attributable to a real-named person can be uploaded to CZ, see this; however, unlike WP, images may be uploaded under any open content license, as well as images that are copyrighted and used by documented permission. To add an image you have uploaded to an article use the form [[image:tst.png|right|thumb|150px|Image description.{{photo:First Last}}]]. See Help:Images for the full details, probably too detailed at this point.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 22:29, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
title goes here
Here is another example with one of your own pictures. Using the following code is the simplest [[Image:200px-IMG_0094_She.JPG|thumb|150px|An early concept of the iPod, circa 300 A.D.]] you can control the size and add a caption. See the example to the right. For more information read the help at CZ:How_to_edit_an_article. Chris Day (talk) 22:31, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
Oh yeah baby, I finally got it right with the inkstone image. Yahoo! I'm on to the next. :D Thanks for all your help. --Yim Kai-mun 02:54, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
Ahem. Sowwy. That one image of Zhang Shengwen just refuses to load. Meh. --Yim Kai-mun 19:49, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
I did it. Yay! --Yim Kai-mun 20:25, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Testing Template:Subpages9

Stephen, do you think it would be alright to add this template to the life article? {{Subpages9|editor=David Tribe|group=Biology|approved=yes}}

If you can do this, then we will have two test articles to compare the functionality of this new subpages9 template strategy with regard to transculuding the various informative templates. For examples, we will be able to compare between an approved article header (Life) and an unapproved article header (Anthropology). In this case, either the {{approved}} template or the {{construction}} template are transcluded respectively.

Note also that the gallery pages are now running correctly although the code is very clunky, I have not had time to streamline it. At present the templates need the field (i.e. group, group2, approved or editor) to be present in the template even if a value is not required, otherwise it does not function correctly. Ideally if there is no value the field should not have to be in the template. If the long run that should be easy to fix. When comparing Life/Gallery and Anthropology/Gallery note the different categories at the bottom. I'm not sure if we really want to create so many categories since I am unsure if they will be useful when we have masses of galleries but it gives some ideas for the potential use of this subpages template.

Finally, I have added Larry's header templates where available to to the cell below the tabs. Chris Day (talk) 14:24, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

Your forum post

Thanks for braggin about me :-) I'm flattered. If what I did can get CZ more authors, it would be another good thing. Yi Zhe Wu 10:05, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

memory/speed issues

one problem with the subpages9 template is that it transcludes the contruction template even when it is not being used. See the what links here url for the construction template. is this a problem with the server, i.e. does it slow things down? If so it might be better to keep things more simple. Chris Day (talk) 15:32, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

Thanks, Chris, and thanks for all your work on this. I'll direct Jason to this.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 16:56, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
Sorry I've been away for a while - lack of internet over the summer. Anyhow, taking a quick (mid-lunch break) look at this, it shouldn't be that bad to have it transcluded. It's a bit of a bandwidth hassle (hence slowing down people on dial-up, since they're being sent unnecessary information) which might cost us a few cents a month, but it shouldn't be an issue unless someone decides to change the construction template (because that would count as a change to the subpages9 template too). --ZachPruckowski (Speak to me) 11:16, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Construction template

Sorry--what was wrong with the 16th July version that Stephen did? (sort of a beigy yellow colour on my screen, and a large blue arrow saying draft-> this way)

I liked it. Grey doesn't work for me, with one or two quills. :(

Aleta Curry 00:02, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Nothing wrong with it at all. And we can revert back to the stand alone template. The reason it went gray was to experiment with it seamlessly being part of the {{subpages9}} template experiment which happens to be gray for now (and only because #dddddd is easier to type than other more complex colour hexadecimals). Don't worry none of these changes are permanent. Chris Day (talk) 12:30, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
Okey-dokey. Carry on! Aleta Curry 18:05, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Keeping track

See User_talk:Chris_Day#Subpages_galore --Robert W King 12:04, 18 July 2007 (CDT)


Steve, how do I join workgroups? I'd like to join the Geography workgroup as well as the History workgroup. :) --Yim Kai-mun 20:32, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Visit your userpage and see. I left something there for you.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 20:51, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

images again

Stephen, what do I have to do to use these images? [1]. --Matt Innis (Talk) 16:43, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

A cursory look says it will take a more detailed looked, which I'll do later tonight.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 18:14, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
Don't you just hate those cursed looks. --Matt Innis (Talk) 18:18, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

I sure feel like giving Bartleby a cursed look. Give me a bit more time on this.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 03:45, 21 July 2007 (CDT)

Fair use and archives

The Bibliotheque Nationale (of France) has the original of the Historia Tolteca-Chichimeca and claims rights to reproductions of it and charges for them. One part of that document, a depiction of Chicomoztoc (the mythological cave where the Chichimecs originated) would be extremely helpful as an illustration in Pilgrimage where I am planning to fill out the section about pre-modern Mesoamerican traditions.


  1. Is a fair use claim appropriate?
  2. If not, have we resolved the debate over honoring libraries' claims?
  3. Are we even allowing fair use media yet?

(A copy claiming public domain is at Wikipedia:

--Joe Quick (Talk) 05:53, 21 July 2007 (CDT)

I think you missed the post above. This edit will make it pop up on your watch page. --Joe Quick (Talk) 11:58, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Po'e picture

Hi Stephen. There's a great picture of the wonderful Tahitian dessert at:

She seems to have reserved all the rights. Could you ask her if she'd release them for the new article at Po'e? Many thanks! Hayford Peirce 13:53, 21 July 2007 (CDT)

Sure!  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 14:19, 21 July 2007 (CDT)

Port Arthur massacre

Last night when I was totally asleep the article Port Arthur massacre was vandalized by its author who declared he left the project and said someone damaged his article (I am not aware of this since I was asleep). Can you take a look and see what was going on? Thanks! Yi Zhe Wu 10:15, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

Issue has obviously been settled, in a regrettable manner albeit. :-(  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 21:08, 22 July 2007 (CDT)
Yes it was regrettable. If this happens too much CZ is going to collapse. Yi Zhe Wu 22:35, 22 July 2007 (CDT)
Not at all, Yi.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 15:55, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
Thanks for the reply and all the links...but, what website is the one with the moon background? That's what that user wrote there? Or it's someone else's website. Also, what's the purpose of "Web cite" and how do you use it? Best. Yi Zhe Wu 19:26, 23 July 2007 (CDT)
Okie, but what's *happened* to the blinkin' article? I wuz gonna go and do some more copyediting but it's vanished. Some senior person has disappeared it, obviously, but why? Impossible to rewrite in an objective way? In any case, what is the policy on stuff like this? Someone writes a really bad article about Chicago Cubs Players, full of lies and distortions. It gets vanished, for cause. Are there objections if, ten days later, *I* want to write an article of the same name? Will it get vanished also? Hayford Peirce 20:42, 29 July 2007 (CDT)


I noticed you were the one who put up the picture in the Guiness article. How did you do that exactly? I'm 18, but I really am a horrible technophobe! Let me know if you can help me out with that.


Denis Cavanagh 15:56, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

Hi Denis. Would like help uploading images or placing them into articles - or both? :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 21:07, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

Sorry I didn't get back sooner - I mean I don't know how to make an image appear here on citizendium. Denis Cavanagh 03:14, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

tools on the left

Hey Stephen, what happened to the tools on the left? --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:48, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

And is it just me or does your talk page say it is protected? --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:49, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

David T. appears to have protected it for me preemptively That was from 2/2007. Beats me! It's not protected now, anyway. For where the tools on the left went, see this. But to add some new and quite cool tools, copy the contents of this into here.  :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 20:59, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

Food name help

lower case? title case?

  • Fish and chips/fish and chips/Fish and Chips
  • Spotted Dick - Spotted dick does not look right
  • Roast beef and Yorkshire Pudding?

You get the idea.


Aleta Curry 22:29, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

No policy on that but here's from both the grammarian and hobbyist chef in me:

Proper dishes are proper nouns, so capitalize:

  • Yorkshire Pudding
  • Peking Duck
  • Brunswick Stew
  • Roast Beef
  • French Onion Soup

However, note:

  • Roasted beef - not the name of the dish proper so is not capitalized
  • Vegetable stews - same as above

I'll point Hayford to this for his comment.

 —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 22:51, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

  • I'm glad that this topic has been brought up, as I have been "stewing" over it for a while, hehe, but didn't know where to address my questions. There are, I think, a lot of conflicting edits about this and I hope that we can manage to standardize them before they get out of hand. Here are my own thoughts, and I would welcome discussion of any and all of them:
    • Fish and Chips should be the NAME of the article.
      • Thereafter, within the article, they should be referred to in lower case: "People in Great Britain eat more fish and chips per capita than do those in France."
    • French Fries is the name of the article; thereafter "french fries" without caps.
    • Roast Beef as the name of an article; **Roasted beef** as the name of an article. Both of them without caps thereafter.
    • Blanquette de Veau as the name of the article, ditto for Vitello Tonatto, lowercase thereafter.
    • Beef Bourguignon I don't know what to do about, but we can worry about that when an article about it is actually written.
    • Yorkshire Pudding in the title, Yorkshire pudding thereafter.
    • Mandarin Pressed Duck -- I'm pretty sure that pressed duck shouldn't be in caps in the article, but I dunno about the Mandarin.
      • Cocktails seem to me to be another can of worms entirely, since many of them were given specific names by their creators and have generally retained their names.
        • Mai Tai, Navy Grog, and Zombie are well-known rum drinks invented in the 1930s. Do we continue to use caps for them in their articles or not? Frankly I don't know.
        • Martini. I don't know what to do about this either. I see it both with and without caps.
        • Manhattan. This is almost certainly named after the borough of Manhattan one way or another, so I *think* it should always be capitalized, but maybe not.
        • Old Fashioned. Caps in the title, thereafter no. I think....
          • I'm sure than many other conundrums exist but maybe we can get started with these. Hayford Peirce 12:05, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

Hayford, Aleta, let's do something. Let's look within several of our recipe books and see the conventions used there and post them. I already have but will wait to hear back.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 01:52, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

I'm on the road again until probably Sat. afternoon or Sun. morning at the earliest and won't be able to do anything more until I get home, where I probably have 75 or so cookbooks, which may or may not give an equal diversity of opinions. I'll be in touch eventually. Hayford Peirce 11:29, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
Sorry, just seeing this. Unfortunately, almost my entire library is in a shipping container at the mo. Very hard to dig for books. I'll do some checking online when I have time & (solar) power. Aleta Curry 00:30, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

popups still?

This is what I get, you?

It should also give a nice intro section from the article. Try letting it hover a bit longer.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 16:38, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

Subpage v. lead image

[2] See what's going on here when a subpage is inserted in an article where there is a lead image. Regards. Yi Zhe Wu 16:29, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

Yep, that's one reason why I strongly disagree with the placement of subpages along the right. See,1059.0.html Tabs are more natural and do not impinge anything.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 16:37, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

Temporarily suppressing images

Hi, Stephen. I've just created an article about Lawry's. I brought in the version I did a year or so ago for Wikipedia and edited it slightly. There are also a couple of images that I want to add eventually. I'm away from home and can't figure out how you once put a couple of a squiggles or a colon or something around an image that we didn't want to show for the moment on an article. (Later you deleted the image entirely, so I can't use that as a reference.) If you could suppress them for the moment, when I get home at the end of the week I will upload the images for use. Many thanks! Hayford Peirce 16:45, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

You can supress anything in an article with the following tags:
<!-- Whatever is between these two tags is suppressed. -->
 —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 16:51, 23 July 2007 (CDT)
Gotcha! Knew it was simple, but couldn't find an example. Thanks! Hayford Peirce 16:50, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

Grünewald & other media

Hi Stephen, two questions:

  • What's the current status on the image by Grünewald? I think the GFDL is pretty safe.
  • Is there a chance to upload other media formats than JPEGs and PNGs? What about…
    • Animated GIFs
    • Flash files (.swf, .flv)
    • Audio files (.wav, .aif, .mp3, .mp4, .ogg etc.)
    • Movie files (.mov etc.)

Cheers, —Arne Eickenberg 18:19, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

The original piece of art is of course PD. However, when taken from a collection, facts need to be known about that to be assessed. Hard documentation, such as a link to the official source where it explicitly states that the collection was released under the GFDL is really what is needed. Otherwise the GFDL is only heresay and we must not state it as fact, and the image thus continues to have an issue.
Animated GIFs can be uploaded, as well as SVGs. OGG is enabled, too. But any format can be enabled if need be.

 —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 18:28, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

Awright… then I'll just contact the publisher. (~_^) —Arne Eickenberg 18:36, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

Okay. Let's continue this at Image_talk:Gruenewald_IsenheimAltarpiece_Crucifixion.jpg. I moved relevant parts of this conversation there.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 02:05, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Butler and great house

Hi Stephen,

I see you're into images. I don't have the resources to surf the net looking for pictures, so if you come across any that are suitable for butler or great house, could you add? I've asked Chuck, too. Shameless pleas for assistance. Thanks

p.s. I changed the status of butler to 'developed' because I'm happy with it. I know you're busy, but if you could have a read sometime and give me your opinion,that would be great.

Aleta Curry 00:01, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

I've already been looking for images for butler, with you unawares. :-) I have turned up surprisingly nothing...yet.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 00:57, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Dynamic interaction

Stephen, just wanted to say thanks for contributing your thoughts in relation to the Gay marketing naming issue. It is good to receive feedback from others to help reassess one's own (often close) perspective on an issue, and I am planning to watch and think on it as the article, and other topics in CZ, evolves. On a not entirely related matter - I also wanted to say that your animated CZ gif on your User page has a really nice dynamic 'wow' factor. Impressive. Ian Johnson 09:01, 26 July 2007 (CDT)

Hey, he got that from me! But I got it from Paul Hitchmough. --Larry Sanger 22:32, 27 July 2007 (CDT)
Gotta love that collaboration in action! --Ian Johnson 01:56, 28 July 2007 (CDT)
Ian, for whatever its worth (the extent of my marketing experience is writing copy for and being the announcer in radio ads), I think the article is very well done. Can't wait to see Marketing fully developed out.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 22:36, 27 July 2007 (CDT)
Thanks for the kind words. I want to add some depth to both Marketing and Gay marketing - including real-life examples, and am trying to educate myself about Subpages as I think there is a good potential in a practical sense to look at the "Infobox/Cluster/Notebook" options for Gay marketing. In the meantime, I am going to start Business as I feel slightly odd to be an Editor in the only Workgroup with a redlink. --Ian Johnson 01:56, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Sounds good; meanwhile, see my comments at Stonewall riots regarding images.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 02:10, 28 July 2007 (CDT)


After your edit, it appears that the article has two different "history" section.:-) I think it's unintended, so which one should be true? Best. Yi Zhe Wu 13:36, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

He-he, got a lot if things vying for my attention right now. They're merged now.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 13:51, 27 July 2007 (CDT)


Hilarious! Oh, nosing about on OPP (Other People's Pages:) is soooo much fun! Aleta Curry 20:13, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

Oh, indeed, and a very revealing experiment to boot. And you have seen the link I have titled, "Just for fun!" right?  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 22:12, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

I haven't explored "Just for fun!"--but I will now that you've mentioned it! Aleta Curry 00:31, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Groan....[3] and [4].  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 22:37, 28 July 2007 (CDT)
Too obvious, but: Groan...[5] and [6] Aleta Curry 19:32, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

draft, again

I just saw on Chris' page that Ernst Mayr goes straight to "draft". Cool, if you ask me. Aleta Curry 00:33, 28 July 2007 (CDT)


The links you have been suggesting are really appreciated. --Ian Johnson 02:54, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Re the new Help - Great update for me, at least, and others I hope. I am using the new Help template link a lot at present. Thanks. --Ian Johnson 10:21, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Gay (word)

Stephen, I am very unhappy with the changes to Gay (word). The section headers were important, and Aleta's changes have muddied up the etymologyical section greatly. As a professional linguist and etymologist, I would like to see the article reverted to its status prior to all these changes until I have a chance to continue to extend the entry along the lines originally proposed. Hope I don't sound too defensive, but I really felt the work I'd done there was damaged by the last half-dozen edits or so. Best, Russell Potter 20:47, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Sofixit and explain.  :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 21:00, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Well, I've explained a bit here, a bit on Aleta's Talk page, and on the Talk page for the article itself. I just did not want to make major changes without letting all parties know who'd done work on the entry (here I meant to comment to you as a contributor more than as a constable!) -- my bad for not having been clearer about all this! Cheers, Russell Potter 21:07, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Stonewall riots

Hi Stephen, I left a message for you here about the image sourcing process. Look forward to your thoughts. --Ian Johnson 06:58, 29 July 2007 (CDT)