CZ Talk:Notice Board

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Revision as of 12:23, 28 March 2007 by imported>Larry Sanger (→‎Wikipedia credit revisited)
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nicely expressed notice about "calling a constable." Nancy Sculerati MD 12:38, 27 January 2007 (CST)

Wikipedia credit

User Anthony wrote under the dateline of January 24:

Mentioning Wikipedia is neither necessary nor sufficient for GFDL compliance. Anthony 14:07, 28 January 2007 (CST)

I disagree. In any case, I want to credit WP where credit is due just as I would want to be credited for my own work. In connection with my work on the Highland Games Wikia (formerly Wikicities) I use the following template (with obvious changes) for WP material (see edit page for code):

http://www.citizendium.org/images/Smallwikipedialogo.png This page uses content from Wikipedia. The original article was at {{{1}}}. The list of authors can be seen in the page history. As with Citizendium, the text of Wikipedia is available under the GNU Free Documentation License.

This was written by Angela Beesley when she was with Wikipedia, so that should answer any questions about what is sufficient. See the template page of Wikia: http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Wikipedia

James F. Perry 15:38, 28 January 2007 (CST)

Good suggestion, James. I think it is also highly adviseable to link to Wikipedia (or whatever other wiki) in the edit summary when importing text. The format I have been using is like this: "importing Wikipedia article; see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mon_language&action=history up to January 12, 2007 for authorship history".—Nat Krause 15:56, 28 January 2007 (CST)

Wikipedia does not own the copyright on the articles in question, the copyright is held by the authors of the articles. What Angela Beesley said on Wikia is really quite irrelevant.

Don't get me wrong. I think linking to Wikipedia for articles based on Wikipedia is a good idea. But it is not necessary for GFDL compliance, and it most certainly is not sufficient for GFDL compliance. Anthony 16:10, 28 January 2007 (CST)

Well, the important thing is that we make the list of authors available somehow, right?—Nat Krause 16:21, 28 January 2007 (CST)

We have been linking to WP in articles that were automatically copied over in the first fork. There is a database flag that says whether an article is sourced from WP, and unfortunately, the code is simplemindedly written right now so that if someone starts a new page, the flag is "off." Hence the very temporary need for a template. We will remove these templates, as rendundant, as soon as the code is fixed. When fixed, we will be able to check a box and the corresponding WP article will be linked.

I don't want to use a WP logo in that pointer, by the way.

Finally I don't see what the argument is that we must link to WP's page history or credit anyone other than Wikipedia itself. --Larry Sanger 16:46, 28 January 2007 (CST)

[thread moved to Larry's talk page]
I'm not going to weigh in on the legal arguments. But I will say that I like the wording of the above WP template, including the link to the page history (I don't care about the logo). I want articles with significant WP content to link directly to the article and the article's page history. That is also the way I would like to see it done if CZ material is moved over to WP.
On the other hand, if I wrote the article, and the only "contribution" of WP authors was in the form of non-copyrightable material (spelling, typos, links), then I should be able to move it over here without WP credit (article Amber Neben is an example).
I suggest that this conversation be moved to the Forums. I don't know how to do that. James F. Perry 18:32, 28 January 2007 (CST)
I moved it to his talk page, for now. Anthony 18:39, 28 January 2007 (CST)

January 30 photo request

In a request for photos of domestic animals, N. Sculerati requested that the donors "agree to give the copyright to Citizendium". On the actual page where the photos are to be displayed, it says: "The Gallery of Domestic Animals is an image bank that contains donated copyright free ORIGINAL WORK of pictures of domestic animals for use in Citizendium articles."

Obiously, copyright transfer to CZ is not the same as "donated copyright free" work. In fact, the latter wording is ambiguous. Does it mean "donated, copyright-free, original work"? Or "donated copyright, free original work? Or what?

I hate to sound like a nitpicking lawyer, but when dealing with license matters and copyright, it is really necessary to be precise.

But more to the point: the idea of donating the copyright to Citizendium is just plain bad. The photographer should retain the copyright and grant use rights of some specified sort, to CZ. If an individual donates copyrights to CZ, and then becomes disaffected with the project, that could spell all kinds of trouble. The trouble could be legal or, just as bad, public relations. Remember, a donated copyright, without any reservations, means the original creator could not then use his or her own work. Don't do that! And CZ should not ask anyone to do that!

James F. Perry 16:49, 30 January 2007 (CST)

I'm sorry, and you are right, could you fix the language for me (and all of us) please. I just want to make sure that its clear that the work uploaded should not be in copyright violation, and it seems I have managed to make a muddle of it. Thanks, Nancy Nancy Sculerati MD 16:55, 30 January 2007 (CST)

I do not think it is a good idea for me or anyone to write legal language on the fly. May I suggest you remove the original request from the Notice Board until the license issue can be dealt with more thoroughly. James F. Perry 17:07, 30 January 2007 (CST) Lady and Gentleman, is this more appropriate? Robert Tito 17:13, 30 January 2007 (CST)

Orphans and Deletion

I see that a lot of the orphans are making their way into [[Category:Articles_for_deletion]] and staying there for some time. Is that category being patrolled? Are we using the WP series of discussion and events for that category? What needs to be done to get them handled? Is being in that category for 30 (or 45, or 60, or...) days without action or discussion sufficient to add them to the {{Template:speedydelete}} list?
Todd Trimble 09:48, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Hi Todd, I don't really know of a "speedydelete" list here on CZ. Please do not assume that CZ will necessarily have any processes similar to WP's. One thing I'd like to do when I return is to work with the constables and the community on a deletion policy and process--before we start doing any mass deletion. That said, I think you're right that we will need some sort of speedy deletion process. I think the "speedy delete"-marked articles you find on Wikipedia (that are so marked correctly/in good faith) are articles that frankly editors per se need not be bothered with; constables will be able to identify clear cases when the creation of an article is more of a behavior problem than an editorial problem, for example in cases where a biography is made that is simply abusive of its subject. Constables will also be able to do administrative deletion, e.g., if we decide to delete all WP-sourced articles that have not been edited once by anyone on CZ (except to be tagged), then it will be constables that make the deletions. --Larry Sanger 11:44, 6 February 2007 (CST)

I'm a bit confused here since there is a speedy delete being used here in citizendium. See the following category Category:Speedy_Deletion_Requests using the Template:speedydelete. We shouldn't be using this? Also why did the articles that populate the Category:Articles_for_deletion not get deleted in the purge/blanking since the ones i checked are not tagged with the CZ live category? Chris Day (Talk) 13:47, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Wikipedia credit revisited

Here is a list of most often viewed articles that do not credit Wikipedia and still are suspected of containing a number of WP-identical sentences (given after the title)

  • Nuclear_chemistry 91
  • Physics 21
  • Engineering 43
  • Cat 89
  • Computer 11
  • Geography 50
  • Bonny_Hicks 35
  • Agriculture 9
  • Politics 13
  • DNA 249
  • French_language 10
  • Library_science 33
  • Brain 88
  • Pilus 12
  • World_Wide_Web 23
  • Personal_computer 11
  • Acupuncture 40
  • African_American_literature 201
  • Quantum_mechanics 156
  • Medicine 104
  • Microorganism 49
  • History_of_scientific_method 46
  • Anemia 51
  • Doctor_Who 50
  • Snakebite 62
  • Personal_computer_game 34
  • State 62
  • Aristotle 77
  • Indonesia 177
  • Cell_(biology) 72
  • Computational_complexity_theory 97
  • Tycho_Brahe 107
  • Red_blood_cells 67
  • Galaxy 23
  • Linked_list 283
  • John_Logie_Baird 14
  • Self-organized_criticality 15
  • Natural_selection 51
  • Transposon 47
  • Quorum_sensing 23
  • Hemochromatosis 72
  • Philosophy_of_science 78
  • Bread 198

And here go some more difficult (just try to find it!):

I think that there are _many more articles with incorrect status. More complete/reliable list soon (when alpha version of the script is released, now it's just an experiment). --AlekStos 17:01, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Wow, what a fantastic service to have that script! Thanks so much! --Larry Sanger 13:23, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

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