CZ Talk:Dispute Resolution

How's this looking so far?? --Larry Sanger 14:51, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

It looks good, although somewhat indigestible. As a guiding document it will be fine, but possibly we will need to split it up into sub-areas, just for people to get their heads around it.--Martin Baldwin-Edwards 14:54, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

I think the idea of a Lead Workgroup Editor is important for streamlining decisions. I have to say, however, that when such people rule finally in their own areas of expertise, it can be hard for them to separate out their own biases. More often, it is likely to be an intelligent disinterested party who is most inclined to resolve neutrality issues. For example, if I were in a conflict about Bill Clinton, I'd far-and-above take a Gareth Leng--a Scottish physiologist with a great handle on neutrality--over a person more closely situated to the topic by nationality and discipline. Perhaps the idea of Neutrality Editors is worth considering.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 15:16, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

Since the workgroup lead is going to have a lot of administration type duties as well, maybe they don't have to be editors. We could use people that are trained and good at resolving these issues whether they are authors, editors, or CEOs. --Matt Innis (Talk) 15:25, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

On Stephen's point, I agree absolutely. In my own work, it has been a great advantage to me to work on countries with which I have little personal connection, whereas people who are focused on their country of birth are not only narrow in experience,but also very narrow in perspective. Transferable skills is the key idea, I think.

On Matt's idea, I think that ideally we need for workgroup lead people who are broadly-based in the area, are at least of the intellectual standard of editors, and have proven skills in management or dispute resolution. I fear that the combination is quite rare, though... Without the status of editor for workgroup leader, it is likely that the others would not respect the process and we could have real legitimacy problems.--Martin Baldwin-Edwards 15:37, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

Editorial Appeals Committee

The section on The editors role in conflict resolution looks promising. I think the Editorial appeals committee will work to solve most, if not all, of our problems. --Matt Innis (Talk) 16:02, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

My issue with it is cumbersomeness. One might find this only transfers a disupte rather than solving it. :-D  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 16:07, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

At wikipedia, it would. The key here is that Constables ban someone who does not obey the resolution. Harsh, definitely, but effectively stops there as far as the wiki is concerned. --Matt Innis (Talk) 16:09, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

Will the proposed Editorial Appeals Committe be formed from an Editorial Appeals Workgroup or ALL the editors will comprise the Editorial Appeals Workgroup? Supten 00:03, 30 August 2007 (CDT)

Shortage of editors?

I think there is a problem. The articles entailing significant conflict tend to span workgroups, or be outside them - e.g. Jesus, Intelligent Design, Scientific Method, Pseudoscience, and those with political overtones where neutrality is about tone as much as content. Thus, I don't really see examples of conflict that can be resolved by a clear academic voice. Indeed, as the disputes often embrace editors with (if not comprehensive) relevant standing, it's hard to see us finding other editors with greater authority than those already involved. Nor can I see that recourse to a constable will help (in general) except to moderate behaviour; its a confusion of roles.

We are about writing good articles, first and last, not simply articles that cover everything at whatever cost to comprehension and impact. Whether an article is readable, interesting, coherent, logical, sensible, fluent, neutral in tone, attractive in presentation - these are important issues for guiding an article but can be judged by anyone, and these are lodestones that can guide an article past contentious areas.

We need, in cases of conflict, recourse to a group of editors from any background. If disputes do not revolve around factual issues but around issues of tone, balance, neutrality, presentation the issue to be judged is not a strictly academic one but should be about what steps are in the interests of making the best article that is possible. I think editors/authors whose expertise is outside the area of contention might be better placed to make recommendations, guided by these considerations, that would help resolve a conflict, and this would be better than adding another participant to a conflict. i.e. input from those the articles are intended to be read by; their perceptions of whether an article appears balanced and authoritative is important.

Finally we won't get final resolution without an approvals process that works for contentious articles. We don't have a workable mechanism for approving say Intelligent Design, even though that article now seems to be stable and in good shape.Gareth Leng 04:09, 30 August 2007 (CDT)

Gareth makes an important point, which previously I have also made in another context, about the viability of this "federalized" workgroup structure. Can I suggest a compromise?

(1) That we have broad workgroup structures, i.e. not Economics or Politics but Social Sciences, with a General Area Editor to help manage conflicts

(2) That General Editors from any discipline can [and perhaps should] be brought in to help with dispute resolution etc.

The appeal of this arrangement is that there would be some division of academic subjects allowing a degree of independent direction appropriate for each area, alongside a cross-over between broad disciplines which not only would help with disputes but would also tend to promote coherence within CZ on those tricky issues. --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 04:29, 30 August 2007 (CDT)

We have hundreds of authors that are underutilized. Many of them are better at solving disputes than we editors. --Matt Innis (Talk) 08:50, 30 August 2007 (CDT)

Agree with both. Gareth Leng 10:05, 30 August 2007 (CDT)