Talk:Welcome to Citizendium/Archive 1

Welcome to Citizendium

Current talk page

Archive 1

Page needs redesign and simplification

All, if you are interested in the Main Page, will you please work together (or just submit a design of your own) on a brand new and highly simplified design? We will move many of the links that are now on the front page, and in the sidebar, to other (still easily accessible) pages.

I did like a design by Ori Redler from some months ago, but we never followed up on it. --Larry Sanger 22:55, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

Would it be this one? [1]. It still needs work, but is this what you had in mind? --Matt Innis (Talk) 23:13, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

Yes, that's the one. --Larry Sanger 08:25, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

I like that idea. Very simple, and a few more entries, but looks good. Jochen Wendebaum 01:19, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

I got an idea! Reading about where and how to put the Beta tag, without losing sense of a "key" why not a "keychain"? Thomas Mandel 23:38, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

Nice basic layout idea, cool idea for the keychain. :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 01:23, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

Along the "key" theme, what about keyholes or locks, as in clicking one "unlocks" the information users seek. Too hokey? Aric S. Campling 07:56, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

This is something like what I was thinking (I have larger versions if wanted): Aric S. Campling 16:00, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Hokey, yes, but I like it! Anybody know how to do this stuff? --Matt Innis (Talk) 16:09, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

I just noticed this too. It's a great logo. Why don't we make it into the top-left icon? --Larry Sanger 08:18, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

I must admit to not knowing how to actually change that... happy to provide a nicer/bigger logo to fit in the same dimensions as the existing one if someone else knows how to actually get the logo into that space. Aric S. Campling 20:52, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

No problem getting it into the space! Try one version with "Credibility and Collegiality" or "Credible -- Collegial" (some variation). And "Citizendium" of course. --Larry Sanger 08:38, 21 July 2007 (CDT)

Also, how about trying simply "CZ" in the black part? Simple, might work. --Larry Sanger 03:19, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

I know it is doable. I also know I am the sort who just really likes very artistic web design, so long as the functions do not become non-obvious and/or complicated. I just don't think simplicity and plainess necessarily have to be one and the same. :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 18:48, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

Are we still in beta given the planned 2.0 initiatives? Can't we be in like, 0.2?--Robert W King 23:17, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

We officially Do Not Care that beta = pre-1.0. --Larry Sanger 23:20, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

Oh, I think the keyring is nice!  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 00:47, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Pat, thanks--looks better, but still not the radical simplification I was hoping for. But then, we can't really have such a simplification until we have at least partly redesigned the entry pages of, for example, the project (CZ:Project Home). --Larry Sanger 06:37, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

I just saw the redesign, and while I think it's an improvement, I have at least one suggestion for improvement: "Approved Articles" should be up very close to the top. These are our showpieces - the thing which sets us apart (in theory) from Wikipedia. Anthony Argyriou 12:11, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Feel free to tinker with it. I was a little nervous messing with the front page. Anyone should feel free to radically modify as far as I'm concerned. I placed the information sort of in the order I personally wanted--I imagine if you poll 10 people, you'd get ten different sets of priorities there. Anyway, why don't some of yall try your hand? I feel I've already stirred this pot enough :-)

I've just spotted the fresh design and couldn't resist experimenting :-) But my question is: does the Notice Board is a "project entree"? For regular editors the page is either in the watchlist or two-clicks-away via CZ:Project Home on the left margin. For newcomers, the Notice Board is virtually of no meaning. Do you see any other group potentially interested in having the link on the main page? --Aleksander Stos 08:06, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Meh, get rid of it. Really, you can edit it, please do. --Larry Sanger 08:19, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

somehow it's reversed.

I can't help but point out various bugs and display issues, so here's yet another one: (screenshot pending)--Robert W King 14:18, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Robert, do you have problems with other sites too? It seems like you have many more layout problems than others, even those using PC's. It makes me wonder whether you're missing some software. Chris Day (talk) 14:21, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Just seen your screenshot. That png is transparent (at least it is mean't to be. For some reason your system is substituting transparent with black? Chris Day (talk) 14:23, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

When I click on the fullsize logo, there's a gray background.--Robert W King 14:24, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Nope. CZ is the only one, and I am sure I'll get the same results when I get home, but I will keep you updated just in case..--Robert W King 14:22, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Nope, it's ok! Looks OK in the picture above too

Strange, especially since the "approved"green tick is semi transparent. I'd expect the same with that too. Chris Day (talk) 14:31, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Chris- I'm at home now, and it shows up the same way. The subpages template also appears to be a 50% grey/green, and the normal logo has the same background. I still see the front-page logo with the black background; it might be the way IE renders odd transparencies.--Robert W King 17:37, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Does no one else use IE? Chris Day (talk) 18:03, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

I use IE, and my monitor displays the logo as a black rectangle with blue "zendium" and "beta," the latter on a white odd-shaped background. -- k kay 00:55, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

Just noticed this discussion. So it still looks black to some people? It doesn't to me on IE. It must have something to do with the background of that table cell. I just removed the background color. Does that fix the problem? --Larry Sanger 02:12, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

Nope, still black even after I 'hard refresh' and/or clear my cache. I might should mention, however, that I'm using an antique computer running Win95 and IE5.5, but it was working okay before. -- k kay 01:40, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Now? --Larry Sanger 01:47, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

I can see again! If the background is supposed to be a sort of tan, I've got it perfect, if not, at least I can see all the elements now (on the 'main page' -- the ones on this 'talk' page are still black, of course). Thanks. -- k kay 01:51, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

This is only a IE 6 and below issue with transparent PNGs. Appears fine on IE 7, Mozilla Firefox and SeaMonkey, Opera, and Safari for Windows, which is what I've tested it with.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 02:33, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Also displays fine in Konqeurer on Kubuntu Linux.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 02:37, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Grand, but there are probably more people using IE 6 than all the other browsers you listed combined, except maybe Firefox. --Larry Sanger 03:17, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Forums link

Would someone please restore the Forums link at the left bar? It's very helpful and convenient (I use it several times daily, and suspect others may as well), and it's an important part of the project. Russell Potter

This was my first reaction too. There is the "Communicate" link, however, and the target contains all useful pages. So now I appreciate lighter toolbox. Notabene, by the same logic, we could suppress the "Notice Board" link from the toolbox. It is, anyway, linked by "Communicate" and its proper place is in the watchlist. --Aleksander Stos 15:27, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

I use the Forums link a great deal as well, and would like to see it back. Aleta Curry 18:17, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

I too would like to see it back. Hayford Peirce 14:02, 21 July 2007 (CDT)

The "Communicate" option is much too ambiguous. Communicate with whom? About what? Through what means? I greatly prefer the original set of options. Russell Potter 17:28, 21 July 2007 (CDT)

Missing links - food, cuisine

This page is sure a lot cleaner looking than when I first joined a couple of months ago -- a great improvement! I don't see any openings, however, that would lead the casual browsing newcomer to Food Sciences or Culinary Arts (a proposed workgroup) or Catalog of French cuisine or Catalog of cocktails or any of the food articles I've worked on. Surely food, as a vital part of our existence, ought to be referenced here in some easy-to-find way. Under Sports, for instance, there's a list of difference sports, some with existing links and even sub-links.... Hayford Peirce 16:26, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Just an oversight? Aleta Curry 18:24, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

We three ought to work together to get a food article up to approval status. French fries seems a good candidate. I'll try to recruit an editor, if need be. And after thinking a while, I do think a Cuisine Workgroup or some such is needed; just does not fit tightly enough with Food Science--one produces (a science), the other prepares (an art), with little crossover.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 02:26, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Okay, I'll have a look. (Although the idea that the first approved article in Food Science will be something so completely bad for one--sheesh!) Re: Cuisine Workgroup--I'm not fundamentally opposed, but I need to point out that as far as I know, cooking is one of the food sciences, so it's not so much an issue of crossover as subset. Don't care enough to argue, though. Aleta Curry 17:08, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Borders

I like it better with borders, although it's a close call. Hayford Peirce 18:42, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Checklist!

Guys! Did you delete the checklist? Aleta Curry 18:50, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

It's still there, just buried now. Bookmark it. It could also be added usefully to CZ:Project Home if it isn't there already. Template:Checklist --Larry Sanger 08:52, 21 July 2007 (CDT)

"just buried now." ??? Why not just make things easier? Aleta Curry 17:05, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Because sometimes easier ain't actually easier. Simplify the entry pages and more people have warmer fuzzies about us. What we really need is a personally configurable sidebar...but for that, we need more active (or paid) coders. --Larry Sanger 04:01, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

An idea for "Recreation"

I don't know what we're calling the organizational sections that the workgroups fall into, but I'd like to address the one now called "Recreation".

Let's change this to "Avocations, Recreation and Related Professions". It will help us deal with hobbies that are paraprofessional and avocations that can be amateur or professional (gardening, sports, cooking are crossover occupations that spring to mind.)

Now we can keep the present workgroups and also add one for 'Service Organisations' (The Red Cross, The United Way, Rotary International and the like.) This will also solve the many issues that have been raised with regard to "hobbies" in the forums, and also, as someone pointed out elsewhere, that Service Orgs and charities aren't included anywhere at the moment. Aleta Curry 17:15, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Hi Aleta, please move this to CZ:New Workgroup Requests where we're keeping track of this sort of thing. I'm afraid your insights will fall through the cracks otherwise. --Larry Sanger 23:52, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Okay, thanks, I posted it over there. Aleta Curry 00:10, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Article of the Week

I've just reworked slightly the page to make a place for the Article of the Week, I think it's a must ( see also this forum thread). Naturally, the featured article is to be changed on a weekly basis. Since the wikiprocedure proposed by Larry didn't generate many reactions so far, let's simply adopt the rule of time order of approvals (any other suggestions?). To make it easy to see, I'll insert here an ordered list of articles to be put on the front page. To make it easy, here is the list (on a second thought, we might still change the order, just by manual editing below) --Aleksander Stos 12:13, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

1. Biology
2. Barbara McClintock
3. Chiropractic
4. Metabolism
5. Horizontal gene transfer
6. Wheat
7. Vertebral subluxation
8. RNA interference
9. Chemistry
10. Life
11. Dog
12. Tux
13. Infant colic
14. Pittsburgh, History to 1800
15. Pittsburgh, History since 1800
16. Complex number
17. Prime number
18. Literature
19. Telephone newspaper
20. Contraception (medical methods)
21. Bacteriophage
22. Northwest Passage
23. Crystal Palace
24. Ancient Celtic music
25. Frederick Twort
26. Félix d'Hérelle
27. John Franklin
28. Terrorism
29. DNA
30. Shirley Chisholm
31. Joan of Arc

This isn't a bad idea at all, Aleks, it's just that I think that if we were to vote, it could generate more community excitement. Let's see how my "would you vote" vote goes... --Larry Sanger 12:22, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Maybe a better home for such a list is on a subpage? Main_Page/Article_of_the_week The front page looks good to me. Chris Day (talk) 12:25, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Maybe you're right. --Larry Sanger 12:39, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

I just noticed the vote discussion. Move that subpage to a better name or place as needed. i created it before noticing the other discussions. Chris Day (talk) 12:38, 25 July 2007 (CDT)