Talk:German language: Difference between revisions
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==German as Hochdeutsch?== | ==German as Hochdeutsch?== | ||
I think the first sentence ("German language is, perhaps first and foremost, the common dialect taught in German and Austrian schools, business, and government, and which is taught in other countries as "German" — the dialect called Hochdeutsch (High German)") is confusing. It seems to me that we should start by saying that 'German' is a whole bunch of dialects, then quickly emphasise things common to German linguistic culture, such as Hochdeutsch and spelling reform. Otherwise I think it adds to the 'German equals Hochdeutsch' myth. [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] 02:29, 15 May 2007 (CDT) | I think the first sentence ("German language is, perhaps first and foremost, the common dialect taught in German and Austrian schools, business, and government, and which is taught in other countries as "German" — the dialect called Hochdeutsch (High German)") is confusing. It seems to me that we should start by saying that 'German' is a whole bunch of dialects, then quickly emphasise things common to German linguistic culture, such as Hochdeutsch and spelling reform. Otherwise I think it adds to the 'German equals Hochdeutsch' myth. [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] 02:29, 15 May 2007 (CDT) | ||
::You have a point that something needs to change. I decided to replace "dialect" on the first line with "language" due to the previous long bicker that led to [[German_dialects]] to be split off from this page. The first time anyone sees "dialect" on this page, I would like them to click on [[German_dialects]] which goes into all of the stuff that I personally would have preferred to cover right herein this article. See the talk page | ::You have a point that something needs to change. I decided to replace "dialect" on the first line with "language" due to the previous long bicker that led to [[German_dialects]] to be split off from this page. The first time anyone sees "dialect" on this page, I would like them to click on [[German_dialects]] which goes into all of the stuff that I personally would have preferred to cover right herein this article. See the talk page [[Talk:German_dialects]] for more info :-) [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] 13:04, 15 May 2007 (CDT) | ||
:::On coming back to this after several months, I feel we still have a problem here. The title makes it look like German = Hochdeutsch, and the rest are 'just dialects'. It would be better, I think, if we had a page called something like '[[Standard German]]', which would just concern the formal language, so that this page can act as a starter for that and [[German dialects]]. I don't know if it's worth making a further distinction by having a '[[High German]]' page - maybe so if we can show that there are non-standard dialects of High German. [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] 21:42, 10 October 2007 (CDT) | |||
==Spelling Reform == | |||
The article says: "journals and newspapers still preserve (or have returned to) their old 'house styles' of German and German spelling." - for all I know (I am a native speaker living in Germany), that is false. They don't preserve/return to "house styles", they preserve/return to the pre-reform official german (Hochdeutsch) style. I'm not a professional in this field or a journalist, so if someone has more evidence, I'll be happy, but I've never heard any major journal or newspaper use a "house style". --[[User:Tom Vogt|Tom Vogt]] 16:11, 5 December 2007 (CST) | |||
::I think some newspapers and magazines have simply "declared" the old pre-reform spelling their "house style." [[User:Michel van der Hoek|Michel van der Hoek]] 17:44, 30 May 2008 (CDT) | |||
==Editorial Vision for This Article== | |||
I have been working on this article and the related article [[German dialects]]. Please see the [[Talk:German dialects]] page ("Editorial Vision for This Article") for my ideas. I would like to clean up this article as well as the dialect article. [[User:Michel van der Hoek|Michel van der Hoek]] 17:44, 30 May 2008 (CDT) | |||
Latest revision as of 16:44, 30 May 2008
German as Hochdeutsch?
I think the first sentence ("German language is, perhaps first and foremost, the common dialect taught in German and Austrian schools, business, and government, and which is taught in other countries as "German" — the dialect called Hochdeutsch (High German)") is confusing. It seems to me that we should start by saying that 'German' is a whole bunch of dialects, then quickly emphasise things common to German linguistic culture, such as Hochdeutsch and spelling reform. Otherwise I think it adds to the 'German equals Hochdeutsch' myth. John Stephenson 02:29, 15 May 2007 (CDT)
- You have a point that something needs to change. I decided to replace "dialect" on the first line with "language" due to the previous long bicker that led to German_dialects to be split off from this page. The first time anyone sees "dialect" on this page, I would like them to click on German_dialects which goes into all of the stuff that I personally would have preferred to cover right herein this article. See the talk page Talk:German_dialects for more info :-) Pat Palmer 13:04, 15 May 2007 (CDT)
- On coming back to this after several months, I feel we still have a problem here. The title makes it look like German = Hochdeutsch, and the rest are 'just dialects'. It would be better, I think, if we had a page called something like 'Standard German', which would just concern the formal language, so that this page can act as a starter for that and German dialects. I don't know if it's worth making a further distinction by having a 'High German' page - maybe so if we can show that there are non-standard dialects of High German. John Stephenson 21:42, 10 October 2007 (CDT)
Spelling Reform
The article says: "journals and newspapers still preserve (or have returned to) their old 'house styles' of German and German spelling." - for all I know (I am a native speaker living in Germany), that is false. They don't preserve/return to "house styles", they preserve/return to the pre-reform official german (Hochdeutsch) style. I'm not a professional in this field or a journalist, so if someone has more evidence, I'll be happy, but I've never heard any major journal or newspaper use a "house style". --Tom Vogt 16:11, 5 December 2007 (CST)
- I think some newspapers and magazines have simply "declared" the old pre-reform spelling their "house style." Michel van der Hoek 17:44, 30 May 2008 (CDT)
Editorial Vision for This Article
I have been working on this article and the related article German dialects. Please see the Talk:German dialects page ("Editorial Vision for This Article") for my ideas. I would like to clean up this article as well as the dialect article. Michel van der Hoek 17:44, 30 May 2008 (CDT)