Talk:Acid rain/Draft

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 Definition Deposition of acidified rain, snow, sleet, hail, gases and particles, and acidified fog and cloud water, due to nitric or sulfuric acid pollution. [d] [e]
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 Workgroup categories Biology and Chemistry [Categories OK]
 Subgroup categories:  Chemical Engineering and Environmental Engineering
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Reviewing and revising this article

This article was created in January 2007 by a Citizen who has not been active since October 2007 (3 years ago). Since then, very little substantive work has been done on the article. The primary source for this article was Acid Rain as it existed in 2007, an online article which has been revised a number of times since then.

As of a few days ago, this article was almost completely a word-for-word copy of its primary source, and I started to review it and add references, wiki links, expand and/or delete parts as warranted for two reasons: (1) to make the article less of a word-for-word copy of an exiting online article and (2) to expand or revise the article as warranted. To that end, I have already made numerous small changes, added a completely new section, and added a graphic. I plan to continue my review and edits as time permits. Milton Beychok 22:48, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I have finished my edits to modify the article by formatting changes, some wording revisions/deletions/additions, addition of 3 graphics, creating a references section and creating some new references. I believe it is now a status 1 article and will change the metadata template to that effect.
Any comments by anyone? Milton Beychok 22:21, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
Milton, you did a terrific job with this article. No question article length appropriate to the need to cover the important aspects of the subject. Your graphic, very helpful.
A few comments and questions:
  • You discuss comparisons of pH values, commenting on the 'importance' of small differences that might seem confusing to the reader not familiar with the logarithmic nature of the pH scale. Perhaps it would help to include a small table comparing pH values with hydrogen ion concentrations, over the ranges of pH discussed in the article.
  • How does the decline of red spruce negatively impact specifically?
  • Which contributes more to U.S. production of acid rain, coal or petroleum combustion?
  • How much U.S. acid rain derives from fuel combustion by other countries?
Again, a masterfully prepared, readable, interestingly informative article. Anthony.Sebastian 16:22, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, Anthony for your comments. I will add add a pH table such as you suggest. (probably a few days from now as I am tied up next day or two). Coal has more sulfur than most petroleum products and hence will form more sulfur dioxide which is an acid rain precursor. The loss of any trees on a large-scale is per se negative just the same as forest fires are negative. Perhaps I can find a photo of a forest devastated by acid rain. I have no idea how much of the U.S. rain is from fuel combustion in Canada ... but I think it more likely that we contribute to their acid rain more than they contribute to ours. Milton Beychok 16:49, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

There are other countries as well

I've little knowledge of ecology, but I feel that this article is very US-centric in its coverage. There are only maps of the US, a lot of comments about the situation in different US states. There are only comments on the "acid rain in north America". In all, there is little awareness of acid rain in other parts of the world.

Surely the phenomenon is not limited to one country of the world?

I do not think the article should be approved in its current form, without either a clarification that acid rain does not exist outside the US, or at least some attempt at a neutral (geographically) coverage. Johan A. Förberg 15:15, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Otherwise, Milton, the article is very nice :) I simply have to cry out a bit when I read an article and all I see is maps of the US. Johan A. Förberg 15:20, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Johan, you are correct in saying that the article is U.S.-centric ... because the maps and other data were easily accessible for the U.S. and not so for other countries. Would you like to add a section to the article that at least mentions some of the other countries that have experienced acid rain? Or propose a draft of such a section, here on the Talk page, and I will add it to the article? Milton Beychok 15:43, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Yes, that is a reasonable request. I'll make an attempt but as I have said, my knowledge of ecology is limited. The article is very well-researched and interesting to read. I just feel that the approval status requires at least a mention of problems in the rest of the world. Johan A. Förberg 16:30, 10 November 2010 (UTC)


The last sentence of the introduction is:

As a result of the increasing global economies, fossil fuel combustion is increasing around the world, with concomitant spread of acid rain.

Does this mean

  • globally, the total amount of acid rain is increasing (in spite of efforts to reduce it), or
  • only that acid rain is spreading around the world due to global economies?

--Peter Schmitt 00:21, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

I am going to remove that sentence, Peter, because probably in the countries that have instituted sulfur dioxide emission limits, acid rain has been reduced ... and that sentence may therefore be misleading. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. Milton Beychok 00:58, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
Also, I like the note that you added at the end of the lede. Milton Beychok 01:00, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Affected areas

If this added short section is not exhaustive (and it probably is not), then it is better not to include it in the approved article. --Peter Schmitt 00:27, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

I think that the short section added by Johan is adequate for now. If at some time in the future, someone wishes to expand it, then they may do so to the draft. At least, Johan's section provides a place for any expansion that someone may want to provide.
As far as I am concerned, the article is now ready for Anthony Sebastian to update the nominated version on the Metadata template. I must now get back to our Managing Council deliberations and to our donation drive. Thanks to all. Milton Beychok 01:09, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
I agree with Peter that my section is short and certainly not exhaustive. Milton, I apologise for being so assertive earlier on this talk page. I fully understand if you do not include the section in the approved article. Johan A. Förberg 22:13, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
I am happy with what you wrote. As I said above, anyone can expand that section later on. Milton Beychok 22:32, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Approved Version 1.0

Congratulations on our first post charter approval!