CZ:Proposals/Recipes Subpage and Accompanying Usage Policy

This proposal has been assigned on an ad hoc basis to the person or persons named just below, and is now in the Ad hoc proposals queue

This proposal will be approvable, with one caveat, by the contributors to this page, when the driver deems it ready to call for approval. If there is a controversy, and you contribute to this page, then you have a "vote." The caveat is that the final proposal must be posted to cz-editcouncil by an editor (feel free to send it to me when you're ready --LMS), so that the Council has a chance to review it and opt to vote on it (not likely). --Larry Sanger (Proposals Manager pro tempore)

Complete explanation

A new subpage type should be created CZ:Recipes. Anyone interested may take the lead in creating CZ:Recipes and then the Recipe subpage support should be added to the subpage system. The subpage may be bilaterally linked with the Cooking page. Cooking is core article in the Food Science category, I have added it to the Hobbies workgroup as well. However, presently there isn't any page on recipe. Various people discussed this in various talk spaces, including most recently, the talk pages of Bolognese sauce and CZ Talk: Food Science Workgroup# Recipes/Receipts but nothing concrete appears to have come of those discussions.

Reasoning

Another option considered was to make it a tutorial.

Implementation

After some more discussion this may become clear.

Discussion

I'd be glad to participate if I had the foggiest notion of what was going on. Ah well, I'll start anyway.

Some issues

1. Options: well, we could have a recipe tab as a subpage, or we could start separate CZ how-to workbooks. I see no reason for the latter, since we have clusters, and think a recipe tab system would work well.
2. It would make sense for there to be a catalogue of recipes somewhere. One could browse the catalogue for a list of things to make for dinner, or go right to the cluster if you knew e.g. you were looking for a recipe for ragu. Not that I think CZ would be the first stop for recipes.
3. Somewhere, someone (I think Hayford wrote that recipes should not be editable by just anyone. I think this is a valid point. Drive-by editing can just ruin a good recipe, and significantly alter an authentic one. I think this should be given consideration.

Aleta Curry 15:18, 13 February 2008 (CST)

Proposer remarks

Geez, now do I have rewrite this whole thing again?! This is baffling!

Anyway, my question is very simple: what are we going to do about the recipes that I am inserting into various articles? Make them subpages? Classify them in some index somewhere? Start a new tab for "Recipes" at the top of pages on which that would be a useful feature. Index them somehow at some central repository? Catalog them? List them?

The point is that they should be easily accessible, and easily findable. We're not quite yet at the point where we can offer competition to the Larousse Gastronomique, but on the other hand, the recipes I've put in are a *lot* more practical and easy to follow than anything you're ever going to find in the Larousse except, maybe, a boiled egg....Hayford Peirce 19:20, 12 February 2008 (CST)

Sorry you found the system baffling. Obviously, you don't have to rewrite the summary on the proposal page. The proposal page is supposed to detail the issue as you wish to raise it. For further instructions, see CZ:Proposals/Policy, where it's explained.

You've asked a question, but you didn't formulate it as an issue, i.e., as a decision among two or more options; but you didn't detail any options. Are you expecting someone else to lay out some specific options? But why not you? The system is designed as a venue where you can say, "Here are the options and I think we must pick one," or "Here is how to do something that must be done." If you don't want to spell out the issue in detail, well, maybe someone else will for you... --Larry Sanger 20:56, 12 February 2008 (CST)

Experimenting

I'd like to test the system by acting as a driver. Supten Sarbadhikari 21:51, 12 February 2008 (CST)

Please do, because I'm completely at sea here! Hayford Peirce 10:13, 13 February 2008 (CST)

Thanks, Supten! The first think to do is to read through CZ:Proposals/Policy and, if you have any questions, particularly if anything is poorly explained (or unexplained), won't you please let me know? I am not quite finished with it, but I'm close. One thing I haven't done is explained what the Proposals Manager does, and when. I'll be adding a section about that soon. --Larry Sanger 22:44, 12 February 2008 (CST)

Pointers

Supten asked for some pointers on where to go next in driving this proposal forward. It's tolerably clear from CZ:Proposals/Policy (especially this section and those following) that a proposal needs to be developed to a certain point before it is acceptable. It should be developed well enough, in any case, to be actionable. What's that mean, in this case? Well, despite the fact that we have many subpage types that are not well described (but then, most undescribed types have not been well used), I think we should at least require of new subpage types (if in fact we are going to have a new subpage type for recipes) that we have a complete draft of a policy page.

Right now, the proposal page merely raises a question (how and under what rules should we host recipes on CZ?) without giving any well-developed answers. Perhaps I shouldn't have taken this off of the new proposals page until the proposal were better developed, but my assumption was that one of the next steps (along with discussion) would be that at least one option would be well developed.

At any rate, if no one is interested in developing CZ:Recipes, or in other respects spelling out the proposal clearly, we should probably file this one under CZ:Proposals/Driverless. Still, if someone (like Hayford) is willing to take a stab at articulating policy for this sort of page, then he or she should be made a co-driver. Then, Supten, as driver, you would simply ask Hayford (or Aleta, or whomever) to write CZ:Recipes. Or, Supten, if you're willing to flesh out the page yourself, do so. Note that there are certain set sections of policy pages about subpage types. See CZ:Subpages#How to add subpage types.

If you're looking for my opinion, which on something like this I offer as merely an opinion, I would say that it makes good sense to make a new subpage type for recipes, but I lack the time and expertise to tackle this myself. --Larry Sanger 07:01, 19 February 2008 (CST)

I've gone over this page again, and from what Larry *seems* to be saying, someone should first of all create a new article called Recipe (or Recipes possibly). I can easily do that. It won't say much, but it *will* exist. Then Larry seems to be saying that someone should *probably* create a subpage tab called "Recipes", to be put in at the top of pertinent pages along with the other tabs such as Edit, Discussion, External Links, Etc. I, for one, definitely agree with that suggestion. I would do it myself, instantly, *except I don't know how*! If I don't have to be a programmer to do it, and someone will *tell* me how, I will, after the proposal has been approved, do it. On the other hand, if it takes 2 hours to explain to me how to do it, and 3 minutes for the explainer to do it himself/herself, then I suggest the latter course.... Hayford Peirce 09:24, 19 February 2008 (CST)

I should make more definite recommendations, eh, Hayford?  ;-) OK. You do not need to worry about making a subpage tab for recipes. Someone else will do that. Writing recipe is also not necessary. All I'm saying is that CZ:Recipes should be made (and filled in with sensible policy recommendations) by someone. If you, then you could be added as a proposal co-drivers. --Larry Sanger 10:24, 19 February 2008 (CST)

You lost me. Is CZ:Recipes a category? I thought we weren't supposed to go around creating categories. Is it just a page that needs beginning? Heck, Hayford and I can do that. Aleta Curry 14:50, 19 February 2008 (CST)

No, categories are preceded by Category: . This is a page to be linked from CZ:Subpages (once a specific proposal is made and accepted). --Larry Sanger 14:52, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Hi Aleta--well done! See CZ:Subpages#How to add subpage types please! --Larry Sanger 14:58, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Yowzers. Can we wipe this and start over with a clean slate and clear proposal? I've listened to folks on this proposal idea and can make one. Stephen Ewen 15:12, 19 February 2008 (CST)

See CZ:Proposals/Recipes Subpage and Accompanying Usage Policy‎ for the fresh start. Stephen Ewen 15:46, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Steve, in the interests of not stepping on toes, let's get a reply from the current driver(s). Aleta has agreed to join in with Supten, it looks like, to me. So I think your proposal is redundant. --Larry Sanger 15:51, 19 February 2008 (CST)

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