Talk:Israel-Palestine Conflict

I'd reccomend this

Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs - Its one of the better documentaries out there about this. Denis Cavanagh 16:32, 17 April 2008 (CDT)

Use of the Word "Terrorist"

This became something of an issue in my Lebanon article (see the talk page), so I'll state my argument clearly up front. The killing of innocent civilians, either by setting off bombs in cities, hijackings, or hostage-taking, is terrorism. Yes, that makes British mandate-era Jewish groups like Irgun terrorists, and it makes the PLO, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad all terrorist organizations, either in the past (PLO) or now (Hamas). Just wanted to make my position clear. (And, yes, I would argue that many of Israel's attacks in the Occupied Territories and Lebanon could be considered state terrorism, but that's not a can of worms I'd like to open in this article) Steven Clark Bennett 22:02, 17 April 2008 (CDT)

Umm, add the phrase "deliberate" to "killing of innocent civilians", and I think you're on safer ground. The Geneva Conventions actually say that it's OK to fire on a hospital or somesuch if it's being used for military purposes (e.g. to fire from). So if civilians were killed in such an attack, that would be within the GC (provided that reasonable care had been taken, to the degree reasonably feasible, to avoid them). How exactly to encompass that point in a pithy definition I don't have an immediate thought on; I was thinking "deliberate and avoidable", but no doubt people would just argue that it was necessary to target civilians. J. Noel Chiappa 23:55, 17 April 2008 (CDT)

Terrorist or Freedom Fighter? The Age old question...

The problem here is, where do you draw a line? Nelson Mandela and the ANC would have been considered a terrorist organization on the above definition, yet he is universally regarded as a freedom fighter today. I also dislike the fact that terrorism seems to only be relevant when it is individuals or non-state organisation. Mugabe and his 'war veterans' are terrorists as well. Its a tough issue, which I think the UN tried to discuss years ago but didn't really get anywhere. Denis Cavanagh 06:02, 18 April 2008 (CDT)

If the only difference between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter" is that the latter won, then if the ANC were freedom fighters, so were the Irgun (see above). I'd prefer something a little less malleable - hence my liking for something like the 'delibate and avoidable attack on civilians' standard, or something like that. But you're right, it is often very much in the eye of the beholder, and one person's "freedom fighter" is another one's "terrorist". Hence my original position, that I just prefer to just avoid using the term, since it is so problematic. J. Noel Chiappa 23:05, 18 April 2008 (CDT)