Talk:The Troubles (Ireland)

we have a problem

Please start with the mid 20th century--we already have histories of Ireland-- and give the why-when-why summary first

I think of "the troubles" as one event (with multiple episodes) with the name "Irish Troubles". Hence the singular. This seems to be reinforced by a discrete beginning and end. Thus in one journal "Over the last three decades the Irish Troubles as by-product has inspired an enormous library—instant history, social science tracts, memoirs, collections..." Richard Jensen 19:06, 13 January 2008 (CST)

I certainly agree with you that it should be considered as one event. I can't put my hands on a really definitive source one way or the other. My 1941 EB devotes many pages to the "civil war" beginning about 1920 but doesn't use the word "Troubles" at all. To me it simply *looks* strange to use a singular for a clearly plural word. As you may recall, in American English, Charley Dressen's old declaration, "The Giants is dead!" is frequently brought up, but only to say that the plural should be used. On the other hand, in British English, it is said that "the govenment are about to take action....etc." So I'll go along with whatever other people decide to do....Hayford Peirce 20:22, 13 January 2008 (CST)

I agree it's a puzzle (or they are a puzzle). Richard Jensen 20:38, 13 January 2008 (CST)

The plan I was running with was a brief outline of the first English involvement on the island (IE, the Anglo Normans) then move on to the Ulster Plantations, and how the Protestant Ulster Scots community got there, then I would fast forward to the details mentioned in the Ulster Unionism article.

At most, the origins section would contain around three paragraphs of historical context. Denis Cavanagh 06:10, 14 January 2008 (CST)

Denis--This is part of a multiple-article series on Ireland and Northern Ireland. This one should deal only with the late 20th century. I recall Bill Buckley's story of his visit to Belfast. He was told, "Everyone here is Catholic or Protestant." Buckley snapped, "surely there must be athiests in Belfast." "Oh yes, but they are either Catholic athiests or Protestant athiests." Richard Jensen 06:49, 14 January 2008 (CST)

Yes, thats a good one! Another joke I've heard is when a man was corned on a street by three men, one of them was lurking in the shadows. He was asked 'Are you Catholic or Protestant?'. The man thought for a second and outsmarted them. 'I'm neither. I'm Jewish'. Out of the shadows came a Muslim man saying 'I must be the luckiest man in Belfast'

Anyway, I'm not sure on how to write the origins section without mentioning the Ulster Plantation, Strongbow and the Anglo Irish war. Denis Cavanagh 07:03, 14 January 2008 (CST)

Good joke! the solution re origins is to just put in links to the other articles. To assume there are 150 year old causes for fights today is pretty strong, let alone 500 or 800 year old links. The Irish Catholics, for example, fought each other (Irish Civil War in 1920s) much harder than they ever fought the Protestants. (see Michael Collins). Richard Jensen 07:15, 14 January 2008 (CST)