Talk:Tux/Draft

Article Checklist for "Tux/Draft"

Workgroup category or categories	Computers Workgroup [Editors asked to check categories]
Article status	Developed article: complete or nearly so
Underlinked article?	Yes
Basic cleanup done?	Yes
Checklist last edited by	Joshua David Williams 12:27, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

To learn how to fill out this checklist, please see CZ:The Article Checklist.

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Robert Tito has nominated this version of this article for approval. Other editors may also sign to support approval. The Computers Workgroup is overseeing this approval. Unless this notice is removed, the article will be approved on 4-21-2007.

Tux's name

Did Linus name Tux? Got evidence for that? It's silly to say that "Tux" was not chosen because it was short for "Tuxedo." Surely the persons talking about the name saw that "Tux" is short for Tuxedo and liked the name partly for that reason. I mean, I don't know this, but surely that's how it went down. No? --Larry Sanger 17:48, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

I learned most of what I know from this page and the mailing list archive it links to towards the top. I know what you mean. I'll search the Usenet archives and see what I can find. --Joshua David Williams 17:51, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

I'd say just cite some references to back up what the article says and you're good (see PHP for a good example of the reference system) --Eric M Gearhart 18:22, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

It took a lot of digging, but I finally found the accurate origin of the name. It was not made by Linus at all, and has a two-fold meaning. See the citations on the naming section. --Joshua David Williams 19:19, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

Also I'd say it would make sense to throw a citation right after "In 1996, a discussion was started on the Linux kernel mailing list of what to use as the Linux logo. Early on, some proposed that it should be a fierce animal. " with a link to the LKML post you're talking about... as for me it's 4:30 am and I'm heading to bed. I did enough tonight I think lol --Eric M Gearhart 19:24, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

Nearly done?

How close do you guys think this article is to being completed? There's not a heck of a lot more to add (though I can think of a few minor things, such as what Linus said about a corporate logo verses a mascot). --Joshua David Williams 12:58, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Hah I suppose we could add Linus' description (of being a slightly portly Penguin that looks like he just ate) or something along those lines. I'd have to find the quote. After that, yea I'm pretty well spent. Some articles don't have to be huge to be Approval-ready --Eric M Gearhart 13:06, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

That's exactly the reference I was thinking of. I found it on this page originally, but I'll find the Usenet link for the citation. --Joshua David Williams 13:07, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

I found the original post here. I'm not sure exactly where to mention it yet, so I could use some input while I'm mauling it over. --Joshua David Williams 13:38, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

I just finished reading the post, and this part stood out to me:

Then we can do a larger version with some more detail (maybe leaning
against a globe of the world, but I don't think we really want to give
any "macho penguin" image here about Atlas or anything). That more
detailed version can spank billy-boy to tears for all I care, or play
ice-hockey with the FreeBSD demon. But the simple, single penguin would
be the logo, and the others would just be that cuddly penguin being used
as an actor in some tableau.

I think it's important to point out that Linus wasn't completely against images of a ferocious penguin, but just wanted the official logo to be a cute picture. Perhaps this post deserves a new section? --Joshua David Williams 13:44, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Hmm maybe a "Linus' original description" as a subsection of History or something? --Eric M Gearhart 13:50, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

That sounds like a great place to put it. I really love the way he described Tux. It puts a very clear picture in your mind. --Joshua David Williams 14:45, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

lin64.jpg

Can anyone find this image? I couldn't find it anywhere. --Joshua David Williams 15:09, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Got it http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/historic-linux/ftp-archives/sunsite.unc.edu/Sep-29-1996/logos/lin64.jpg It's also now at http://la.gg/v/lin64.jpg/ as a mirror --Eric M Gearhart 17:02, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

That's it? I thought it had a penguin in it ?:( --Joshua David Williams 17:04, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Sponsored penguin at Bristol

I was unable to find a trustworthy citation for the penguin the UK team sponsored for Linus. Moreover, the two pages I found conflicted with one another; one said it was for his birthday, and the other said it was his Christmas gift. It could have been both for all I know since he was born so close to Christmas. If no one can find a reliable source, I'm not going to mention it. --Joshua David Williams 16:56, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Better safe than sorry on web sources that conflict. --Eric M Gearhart 17:03, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Er, Subtopic?

As the creator, is Larry Ewing really a sub-topic? Wouldn't he be a related topic, or shouldn't we let people click on the Larry Ewing link at the top of the article if they want to know more? I'd think subtopics are more along lines of what's at Linux: Linux history, Linux kernel, Linux distribution, etc. --Eric M Gearhart 10:28, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

I don't think so. Tux is a subtopic of the Linux articles, and as far as I can tell, Larry Ewing's only notable connection to Linux is Tux (though he may correct me when [or if] he replies to my e-mail). --Joshua David Williams 10:30, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Done yet?

Can a Computers editor please give us some guidance on what we need to do to get this article at a '1' status? I personally think this article has covered all the ground it can cover, and is very near being ready for Approval status --Eric M Gearhart 10:33, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

I'm working on a somewhat large edit at the moment. After I save it, it should be finished unless I get a reply from Larry. --Joshua David Williams 10:35, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

External linnks

According to CZ policy we're supposed to have all external links in an "External links" section and then reference that in the article. I moved the link to ccpenguin.jpg into the External links section --Eric M Gearhart 10:45, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Changed status to 1

I went ahead and changed the status to 1. If an editor wishes to change it back, he may, but I believe this article is ready for approval. --Joshua David Williams 12:27, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Stupid thing

Some how or another, one of my major edits did not appear in the history, so I just re-wrote the missing parts. The article will need re-submitted for approval, I'm afraid. --Joshua David Williams 13:21, 10 April 2007 (CDT) OK removing tag was prematurely, outcommenting it was also not needed only the proper version needed being inserted. Robert Tito |  Talk  13:30, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Comments

• Bad grammar and/or awkward wording

• "Mark Lehrer, however, insisted that Windows 95 was the real competition - not FreeBSD, and that they should instead use a penguin smashing a window, to which Alan Clucas replied should be combined with Alan Cox's suggestion, killing two birds with one stone, to borrow the colloquialism."

• Linus has often expressed his affinity for penguins, once jokingly claiming that he developed a disease called "penguinitis", which "makes you stay awake at nights just thinking about penguins and feeling great love towards them", after being bitten by a ferocious penguin.

• Intro is too brief.

• Article assume the user knows a lot already.

• Uses the first name "Linus" without even saying who he is!

• Introduces characters -- Matt Hartley, David Christiansen, Mark Lehrer, etc. -- but does not say who they are. Does it need mention them by name even?

• As of April 10th, 2007, this image is still available from its original location on the University of Helsinki's FTP server (see the External links section). - Dating things like this seems sloppy. Why not just upload the image to CZ if the licensing permits and include it in the article? Or ask Linus for permission?

• "According to a USENET message he posted, a small pigmy penguin nibbled on his finger." - We don't need to write this way at CZ! We are not writing to satisfy WP deletionists but for readers. Just create your narrative...and let it flow!

• Sections read like sections! Needs improved overall narrative cohesiveness and flow from beginning to end, section-to section.

Stephen Ewen 14:53, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

I've created a draft page to work on your suggestions. As long as we keep references to the original posts, I think you're right in saying that we shouldn't mention everyone's name. --Joshua David Williams 15:11, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

I moved the draft to User:Joshua David Williams/Tux/Draft after a couple complaints. Please feel free to edit it if any of you find ways to improve the flow of the article. Thanks! --Joshua David Williams 17:01, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

LOL, at the same time I was moving it to User:Joshua David Williams/Sandbox! Josh, keep your sandbox but just blank the it I suppose. :-) Stephen Ewen 17:08, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Haha, yes, I received half a dozen messages within 15 minutes of creating it :P I'll send you a message when I'm ready for you to take another look at it :) --Joshua David Williams 17:14, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

other editors?

Josh, did you ask any other editors to approve of the Tux article? Robert Tito |  Talk 

Yes, I left messages on about a dozen editors' talk pages, but only one of them appeared to have ever been active in the past several months. If any of these articles are to be approved, we may need some staff intervention. --Joshua David Williams 17:32, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Perhaps it's for the best at the moment. Should we wait until Stephen's suggestions have been implemented? --Joshua David Williams 17:33, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Not really, the article contains some flaws but since this article will be linked from from the linux article where linux is introduced and explained I see no problem. This article is according me not meant to be a stand-alone article as it is only one little penguin attribute that is clearly linked to linux (in nearly every taste). Any improvement should be part of approved 1.1 - once it found its proper place in the linux article. Ensuring that will make many of the arguments of Steve superfluous - if however this is meant as a stand-alone article his arguments make very good sense. Again I assume you see it as part of the linux article - appropriately - since it has no other reason to exist. Robert Tito |  Talk 

Well, that is actually very interesting, this idea of stand-alone article vs. what Rob is calling a linked article. One thing Encarta has is what they cleverly call "sidebars". These are not full articles but are generally one paragraph, just a real brief description of something that, once clicked, show up as a window within the main article window. I actually very much like the idea of something like sidebars, but the Wikimedia format seems very unkind to it - unless Jason and Greg can work some magic, of course. It seems to me, therefore, that articles need to be readable as standalones. That's my take. Stephen Ewen 18:56, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Steve, suppose you have an article about a pressure cooker, one part is about the hull, another about the lid and again another one about the pressure safety valve system. Apart they make no sense so to make them readable as standalone article is not really what one would intend to. If however I want to look for the linux penguin I search for linux penguin - because I know what it is. Else the linked idea (as explanatory article) seems the more approachable way to proceed. Robert Tito |  Talk 

According CZ:Approval Process, editors cannot actually mark the page approved, only add the {{ToApprove}} template, so I wasn't quite sure what you were asking. that part has already been done. Of course, it may be that this procedure has been changed, and I'm not aware of it.Greg Woodhouse 18:02, 10 April 2007 (CDT)