Talk:Near-death experience: Difference between revisions

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imported>Mary Ash
imported>Howard C. Berkowitz
(Cardiac stoppage to isolelectric EEG is just wrong.)
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[[User:Mary Ash|Mary Ash]] 18:01, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
[[User:Mary Ash|Mary Ash]] 18:01, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
:A list of links, without analysis, doesn't really help; each would have to be read. I'm afraid this article assumes the existence of NDEs and looks for support. NDEs are by no means an accepted phenomenon in medicine. [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 18:01, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
==Highly questionable assertion==
"NDEs occur once a person's [[heart]] function stops causing the blood supply to cut off to the brain. This usually takes between 11 to 20 seconds once the heart function ends. An [[electroencephalogram]] (EEG) reading taken during this time will show a flat [[brain]] waves."
:Sorry, but this is just wrong. In a patient with normal body temperature, it takes 4-5 minutes (240-300 seconds) of no effective cardiac action for there to be significant brain damage, and, even then, it's not an isoelectric EEG. Other factors can extend the time.  Until I get my new pacemaker on Tuesday, I'm sure, from previous experience, I've had several cardiac pauses in the 15 second range. [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 18:01, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

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 Definition:  (or NDE) Experience reported by patients of coming close to death [d] [e]
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 Workgroup categories:  Psychology and Health Sciences [Editors asked to check categories]
 Subgroup category:  Paranormal
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Needs more work

This will need further work. For instance, the "commonly reported experiences" are copied from the source where the are simply a list, and not a sequence of steps. They need to be expanded. --Peter Schmitt 12:44, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Found some references that might be of interest. The first four aare available as free full text, and the first might be particularly valuable

  1. Blackmore SJ (1996) Near-death experiences J R Soc Med 89:73-6. Review. PMID 8683504
  2. Greyson B (2003) Near-death experiences in a psychiatric outpatient clinic population Psychiatr Serv 54:1649-51 PMID 14645808
  3. Griffith LJ (2009) Near-death experiences and psychotherapy Psychiatry (Edgmont)6:35-42 PMID 20011577
  4. Klemenc-Ketis et al. (2010) The effect of carbon dioxide on near-death experiences in out-of-hospital cardiac arrest survivors: a prospective observational study Crit Care 14:R56 PMID 20377847
  5. Greyson B (2010) Hypercapnia and hypokalemia in near-death experiences Crit Care 14:420 PMID 20519028
  6. Beauregard M et al. (2009) Brain activity in near-death experiencers during a meditative state Resuscitation 80:1006-10 PMID 19573975
  7. Belanti J et al. (2008)Phenomenology of near-death experiences: a cross-cultural perspective Transcult Psychiatry 45:121-33 PMID 18344255
  8. Lai CF et al. (2008)Impact of near-death experiences on dialysis patients: a multicenter collaborative study Am J Kidney Dis 2007 50:124-32, 132.e1-2 PMID 17591532
  9. Parnia S et al. (2007) Near death experiences, cognitive function and psychological outcomes of surviving cardiac arrest Resuscitation 74:215-21 PMID 17416449
  10. Greyson B (2007) Consistency of near-death experience accounts over two decades: are reports embellished over time? Resuscitation 73:407-11 PMID 17289247
  11. French CC (2005) Near-death experiences in cardiac arrest survivors Prog Brain Res150:351-67. Review PMID 16186035

Gareth Leng 15:05, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the article needs more work but when I searched for this topic it came up as needing a brief overview. It was not asking for a full length fully researched article. Also, being a wiki it should be expected that others would contribute to writing an article. As my mother used to say "many hands make light work" and she was right. It's also a lot of fun when we can work together collaboratively to get the job done.Mary Ash 16:18, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
And here's some more links you can check out:

http://www.nderf.org/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104397005

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1657919,00.html

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-10-16/health/cheating.near.death_1_geraghty-cardiac-arrest-school-bus?_s=PM:HEALTH

http://www.livescience.com/health/080912-near-death.html

http://www.iands.org/pubs/jnds/

Mary Ash 18:01, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

A list of links, without analysis, doesn't really help; each would have to be read. I'm afraid this article assumes the existence of NDEs and looks for support. NDEs are by no means an accepted phenomenon in medicine. Howard C. Berkowitz 18:01, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Highly questionable assertion

"NDEs occur once a person's heart function stops causing the blood supply to cut off to the brain. This usually takes between 11 to 20 seconds once the heart function ends. An electroencephalogram (EEG) reading taken during this time will show a flat brain waves."

Sorry, but this is just wrong. In a patient with normal body temperature, it takes 4-5 minutes (240-300 seconds) of no effective cardiac action for there to be significant brain damage, and, even then, it's not an isoelectric EEG. Other factors can extend the time. Until I get my new pacemaker on Tuesday, I'm sure, from previous experience, I've had several cardiac pauses in the 15 second range. Howard C. Berkowitz 18:01, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
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