Talk:Catalan Countries

Catalan Countries

Dears Hayford and Ro, there isn't any talk page for the newly created "Catalan countries" page, so I will discuss on Hayford's page. Thank your for having corrected my edits about the Catalan Countries. I only disagree about the following typographic details:

• "Catalan Countries'" is a proper name and should bear an uppercase C in "Countries", like in "Basque Country". It is treated as a proper name in the Catalan-speaking world (see Països Catalans in the Enciclopèdia Catalana). It is also a proper name in English since it is the translation of a Catalan proper name and since it designates a unique territory.
• "Valencian Country" is a proper name (in Catalan: País Valencià, see Enciclopèdia Catalana) and has an official use alongside with Valencian Community / Comunitat Valenciana (see the autonomy status of the community, "Preàmbul", p. 5).
• Since the Catalan name of "València" (with "è") is currently the first, official name of the city (according to the official policy that promotes Catalan toponyms in the Valencian Country), it should be at least admitted in English (even if English also uses the Spanish name "Valencia", without accent).--Domergue Sumien 20:29, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, here's what Wikipedia has to say about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_countries Hayford Peirce 20:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that. So that explains the capital C in Països Catalans, then. But I have never seen 'Valencia' with an accent in English - granted the Catalan version, with the accent, deserves a mention. Ro Thorpe 21:18, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Proposed compromise

I still don't believe that Countries is correct. But how about this: That somewhere we put in a sentence, or a footnote, that says, "Although many of the people in these regions believe that they are actual countries and therefore deserve to have Countries capitalized, standard English usage does not recognize calling it Catalan Country with upper-cases on both words." Or words to that effect. It could be even more prominent than that, with a paragraph setting forth the reasons why people think it *should* be capitalized. But the title of the article would remain as it now is, along with the discussion of the issue.... Hayford Peirce 03:20, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

The fact is that Catalan Countries / Països Catalans functions as a proper name and designates a precise, unique territory. Standard English has no solid tradition regarding this name, standard English can only translate and adapt carefully this name from the current, Catalan practice. It seems obvious that Catalan Countries is similar to Basque Country or to Pays de la Loire, it is not a category of countries like "industrialized countries". "C... Countries" is reflecting a genuine practice that is already massively attested in another language, "C... countries" is inventing a new, unattested practice.--Domergue Sumien 07:04, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Ro, do you agree that I should move everything back to Catalan Countries? With, perhaps, some additional explication du texte by either you or Domergue? Hayford Peirce 16:42, 6 May 2009 (UTC)