Template:CharterVote2/39/Discussion: Difference between revisions
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imported>D. Matt Innis (this is the way I see it.) |
imported>Russell D. Jones (comment) |
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:Agree. [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 00:54, 20 July 2010 (UTC) | :Agree. [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 00:54, 20 July 2010 (UTC) | ||
:This is the way courts do it. The appeals court just decides whether the the previous court made a mistake. The members don't need the expertise to decide the actual case. The case should be retried in the Council that the Ombudsman feels has jurisdiction over the dispute. [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 00:54, 20 July 2010 (UTC) | :This is the way courts do it. The appeals court just decides whether the the previous court made a mistake. The members don't need the expertise to decide the actual case. The case should be retried in the Council that the Ombudsman feels has jurisdiction over the dispute. [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 00:54, 20 July 2010 (UTC) | ||
::I think sending the case back to the MC probably won't change the MC's judgment. We're dealing with volunteers who have no commitment to the judicial profession so have no reason to be fair and impartial on a re-hearing, and just may be pissed enough to not hear it or to reject it in spite. Also, the MC won't be elected to be the judicial board, but to be the managerial board, hearing disputes is their sideline (or am I not thinking of this the same way as you?). Where's the MC's incentive to render fair hearing? And if a grievant doesn't get it the second time around, shall we allow a third appeal? Also, we'll have to rely on the Appeals Board to be firm: if the appeal doesn't merit an appeal because there's no new evidence or no violation of due process, they'll have to say so. Just because a grievant demands an appeal shouldn't mean they automatically get one. [[User:Russell D. Jones|Russell D. Jones]] 01:17, 20 July 2010 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 20:17, 19 July 2010
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Matt, I'm going to write a version that doesn't agree with your comments. Russell D. Jones 14:29, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
- The Appeals Board shall render a final judgment in the case. No further appeals shall be possible.
- I agree with this version by Russell. --Daniel Mietchen 23:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
- Agree Russell D. Jones 23:10, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Russell, for me to agree to your version, you'll need to convince me that three hand picked people won't be making every decision. D. Matt Innis 00:48, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
- Successful Appeals will be allowed to re-enter the Management Council dispute resolution process, limiting the discourse to the new information or addressing the impact of the technical error in the previous procedure.
- Agree. D. Matt Innis 00:54, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
- This is the way courts do it. The appeals court just decides whether the the previous court made a mistake. The members don't need the expertise to decide the actual case. The case should be retried in the Council that the Ombudsman feels has jurisdiction over the dispute. D. Matt Innis 00:54, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
- I think sending the case back to the MC probably won't change the MC's judgment. We're dealing with volunteers who have no commitment to the judicial profession so have no reason to be fair and impartial on a re-hearing, and just may be pissed enough to not hear it or to reject it in spite. Also, the MC won't be elected to be the judicial board, but to be the managerial board, hearing disputes is their sideline (or am I not thinking of this the same way as you?). Where's the MC's incentive to render fair hearing? And if a grievant doesn't get it the second time around, shall we allow a third appeal? Also, we'll have to rely on the Appeals Board to be firm: if the appeal doesn't merit an appeal because there's no new evidence or no violation of due process, they'll have to say so. Just because a grievant demands an appeal shouldn't mean they automatically get one. Russell D. Jones 01:17, 20 July 2010 (UTC)