CZ Talk:Moderator Policy

Behavioral vs. editorial vs. blurred

As we've discusssed in various areas, there are a number of areas where there is some question if a matter if is behavioral or editorial. Some really do straddle the line. What is the best place to discuss these, especially if they may be issues that are relatively pressing in progressing?

Think of these as samples:

• When moving or splitting articles, using subpages, etc., since clusters do not work in userspace, it can be very helpful to have a temporary hold on editing while the cluster features are being tested. This is not in any way intended to be a restriction on what can or cannot be in the content, but simply a means of change control where technical complexities exist. I could see asking, before the action, for a brief period of restriction on what are mostly mechanical processes of editing, as opposed to content of editing.
• Certain markup features, such as text boxes and tables, are very easy to break during early article development with lots of collaborative editing. Tables and columns may be the only way to present numerical material and the like, but text boxes may be a visual flourish that interferes with collaboration.
• Who has authority over workgroup assignments? What is the real meaning of the metadata field "editors asked to check categories"?
• Where is the line between editor rulings of content fact, and the appropriateness of topics or means of argument in an article? Who and when can sourcing be challenged (and no, I'm not talking about Other Place style templates everywhere)?

Howard C. Berkowitz 03:29, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

• When moving or splitting articles, using subpages, etc., since clusters do not work in userspace, it can be very helpful to have a temporary hold on editing while the cluster features are being tested. This is not in any way intended to be a restriction on what can or cannot be in the content, but simply a means of change control where technical complexities exist. I could see asking, before the action, for a brief period of restriction on what are mostly mechanical processes of editing, as opposed to content of editing.

Hi Howard, my gut reaction to this is that I really hate to stop any form of collaboration while the creative juices are flowing. In other words, I think we should do anything we can to solve the problem *before* we put a hold on an article, though I certainly wouldn't rule out doing it if we had to. I think if an editor wants to temporarily put a hold on an article, he should ask on the talk page. If there is a problem with a user who doesn't want to obige, then a constable can be called in assess the behavior. An author shouldn't really have the option to ask for a 'hold'. D. Matt Innis 03:46, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

• Certain markup features, such as text boxes and tables, are very easy to break during early article development with lots of collaborative editing. Tables and columns may be the only way to present numerical material and the like, but text boxes may be a visual flourish that interferes with collaboration.

As far as I see it, currently this is something that should be decided as a part of Citzendium style and needs to be handled by the Editorial process. Constables would then enforce their decision. D. Matt Innis 03:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

• Who has authority over workgroup assignments? What is the real meaning of the metadata field "editors asked to check categories"?

I agree this needs some clarifying. D. Matt Innis 04:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

• Where is the line between editor rulings of content fact, and the appropriateness of topics or means of argument in an article? Who and when can sourcing be challenged (and no, I'm not talking about Other Place style templates everywhere)?

My interpretation is that this is editorial. An author may make an initial query, and I would even allow a follow up or two if the editor was unable to satisfactorily answer the question, but arguing on the talk page (past this initial query), would risk crossing the 'impugning the credibility of a fellow contributer', so take it up the workgoup ladder and EIC or even through email. D. Matt Innis 04:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. The reason I think an author should be able to ask for a temporary hold, and I do mean a short time, is that the legitimate reason may be that he's trying to move text out of a main article and into a subpage. Even though someone thinks they see a flow problem, that's exactly what the author may be trying to fix, but if the text is changed before he can get it into the subpage, it starts being a version problem -- it could very well be that either the changes are going to be made by the subpage (or article) split, and, once they are made, the flow problem goes away. It can be more than just moving blocks of text, because moving into a subpage may require copy edit in the new context.

We can certainly bring this to the EC. Chris probably knows more about this than anything else. Howard C. Berkowitz 04:22, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

More about what? I may know less than you think, but probably have an opinion. Chris Day 06:02, 16 January 2009 (UTC)