A very worthwhile import-but-let's get rid of the columns, please. A lot of the color stuff can go in Dog colors. I know that article is just a stub-the article Horse colors is better developed. Many of the genes are the same-and include the explanation for the Dudley-I believe. I'd say, in this text, brutally cull anything you think is controversial or confusing and we start from there. Nancy Sculerati 13:36, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
- Nancy, I'm not sure how much of the color stuff should be moved? Do you want you do it? Andrew A. Skolnick 10:39, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
I tried to fix those colums. If you can - do. If you can't, please delete the text and keep the headings. We can write it from scratch and be better off. My opinion.Nancy Sculerati 13:49, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
I think the entire business about "silver" labs should go. There are odd colors promoted in every breed (not recognized-of course), no reason to feature that here-it has no great importance. Nancy Sculerati 13:51, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
- I agree. I think the column problem was caused by the embedded photos. I just deleted all of them. Also every line has a hard line break. I'll fix those as I go along. Yes, agree that a lot of the stuff can just be deleted - especially the "silver" garbage. Started to add links to a few of my Lab pix. Step by step... Andrew A. Skolnick 14:03, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
I can't help you edit in its present form. Will look back once it's formatted. Thanks, Nancy Sculerati 14:10, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
I cut this section-not because it will not be discussed, but because it doesn't meet the" CZ breed standard" :-) . We like to discuss breed standards, and do so with discussing the different kennel clubs within a country and around the world. We all learn from this, and we can link each breed standard directly so there is no need to repeat it. Nancy Sculerati 21:31, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
are just fabulous! What a wonderful contribution, Andrew. I want every one of those puppies. Nancy Sculerati 21:33, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
- So do I! I am dying to get Argie's hips and elbows checked and get him certified for Papadom. Then send him out to make us puppies. Argie was such a remakably good puppy. He was housebroken in a flash, never pooped in the house, and never destroyed any furniture or anything other than a pair of slippers. I have to keep telling myself that I need to realize that for some reason I was given St. Argos rather than a Labrador puppie and that this mistake of the Gods will not likely be repeated.
- Unfortunately, I don't have good pix of black and chocolate Labs for the article. Hopefully we can get them from other folk.
- I decided to lead off with a pix of Arg with children rather than a good full picture of a dog because I think it communicates one of the most beautiful things about this breed. Andrew A. Skolnick 23:13, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
- BTW, notice the fox red puppie in the three o'clock position in the sleeping puppies photo? That's Argie, the same guy whose big, beautiful Lab head to the lower left. They grow up so damn fast. Have any more photos of your Goldie to share?Andrew A. Skolnick 08:23, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
Not yet-but a camera may be forthcoming. I think you should mention that-just that the "puppy in the 3... grew up to be this male Labardor." in the adult head picture. If you know ages put that in. For the Rottweiler article, I am seeing if I can get permisiion to use some of the picture's of Xena's litter so that there can be a series of "how they grow" with my own -since I'll be able to add ages. This is not easy information to find, and serial shots at different ages-right into old age, is helpful in understanding breeds, and animals in general. Nancy Sculerati 09:59, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
- Adding ages for me is no problem since all my photo files taken in the past seven years (since I switched to digital cameras) contain the camera data, including the date taken. Matter of fact, take a look at the image page. [Image:Chocolate_black_yellow_and_fox_red_Lab_pups.jpg] At the bottom is the record of info showing that it was taken 7:28 pm on April 19, 2005 with the zoom lens at 14 mm focal length :-} - which means the yellow Labs are 6 weeks and 5 days old. (I just love technology ;-) Andrew A. Skolnick 10:22, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
Can we re-write so that references are only used if they have recognized expertise? for example "dogbreed.com" etc are not ok, really. There are books and articles on lab history- we should re-write to cite those, and the "Lab Timeline" really is lifted from WP. We are trying not to be a mirror- and I think it would read better in a narrative. Similary "escapology" is likely to remain a dead link and perhaps things could be re-written? I am not trying to put that on you,though I'd love to see you do it, your writing is really good and you have an understanding of the breed. I just don't want to delete without your agreement, and my opinion is to delete. Nancy Sculerati 09:53, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
- Oh, please yes. That's one of the things about Wikipedia that drove me away - constant fighting with "editors" and even administrators who insist that sleazy tabloids like the British Sun and (the even-far-worse) Pravda RU are credible references for information about a Russian girl whose "x-ray" vision allows her to diagnose diseases more accurately than doctors. I kid you not.
- I am all for deleting. Please go ahead and delete what you want. I'm in complete agreement with your reasons. Also, you are much more knowledgeable about CZ philosophy and guidelines. I literally never heard of CZ until an NPR news broadcast about a week ago, so I'm trying to catch up and "unlearn" some bad habits I picked up over at Wackipedia. Andrew A. Skolnick 10:32, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
You are a pleasure to work with Andrew, we can criticize here-but always, as you have done, in polite terms. After all, why be anything but polite? Well, I can say one thing I have learned-and it is just what we are doing here-it's best to communicate on the talk page to avoid misunderstandings. So, I'm going to to delete, and we can re-write. It would be great to have some pictures of field labs and field trials-perhaps I'll put a notice on the Notice Board. If you ever attend these-just as a way to study te breed-please send pictures. Also, we could use pictures taken at a show ring-candid shots, not your own dog. I think it's fine to use our own animals-after all, we need pictures we can release to CZ-but we must also have balance to avoid any appearance of self-promotion, especially if we are showing. I'm hoping that people in other countries will also submit field. pet, and show pictures. Nancy Sculerati deleted big time-now more work! Nancy Sculerati 11:39, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
Pasting a bit of history I wrote for WP in case it's useful here:
Origins The Labrador originated on the island of Newfoundland in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada. It is believed to have descended from the St. John's Water Dog, a crossbreed of native water dogs and Newfoundlands. The Earl of Malmesbury is said to have imported at least one dog of this type and bred them in England as hunting dogs; he called his dogs "Labradors".
The modern Labrador Retriever is among the oldest of the modern "recognized" breeds; according to the American Kennel Club, pedigrees exist back to 1878. The Kennel Club recognized the Lab in 1903. The first registration of Labradors by the AKC was in 1917; many English dogs were imported post WWI and these formed the foundation of the American variety. Aleta Curry 18:55, 3 July 2007 (CDT)